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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old October 25 2012, 06:06 AM   #31
los2188
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise blooper??

Guillotine2Hell wrote: View Post
Then maybe the time line still isn't right after all Tasha bore Sela?
Maybe this was a hint of things to come??
Thank you!! That's why I asked the question. My thought was more along the lines of, assuming this wasn't a blooper, this may be a wink and nod of things to come. As stated earlier, it's hard to imagine with the number of people working with all these episodes and in so many different areas, that something like that would be missed, but then again, anything is possible and obviously these things can and do happen. I'm still confused as to how many timelines there are in Yesterday's Enterprise. Is the war timeline still continuing?
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Old October 25 2012, 02:23 PM   #32
22 Stars
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise blooper??

Hawking and others postulate that ALL possible 'timelines' or eventualities exit simultaneously. Anything that has, or could happen, does happen. Our timeline is simply a single lightning bolt through a 'cube of jello' or set of ALL possibilities.

So to answer your question following this hypothesis, the war timeline exists, and will always exist. Whether we as an audience ever 'go' there or intersect with it again, is up to the writers.
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Old October 25 2012, 02:28 PM   #33
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise blooper??

Oh, and it was a costuming mistake.
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Old October 25 2012, 02:33 PM   #34
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise blooper??

The mechanism by which our heroes end up in different timelines is at the very heart of time travel. And sometimes it seems that they have to go through a key "switching point" in the past, in an universe with timelines that constantly branch from past to present (but very seldom merge again from past to present), if they want to go from one present (say, whaleless Earth doomed to die) to another (Earth with whales). But wouldn't it be far more practical to go from one present to another without going through that past switchpoint? That seems to be what our TNG heroes achieved twice in "Yesterday's Enterprise"!

Different means of traveling to the past are probably going to impose different terms on how to switch from timeline to timeline. Do you just have to kill your grandfather to immediately get to the timeline where you paradoxically don't exist? Not in "Back to the Future" style time travel - there's a delay there. Some Trek adventures also seem to feature such a delay, especially if time travel is in the hands of a higher power such as the Guardian of Forever.

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Old October 25 2012, 06:37 PM   #35
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise blooper??

los2188 wrote: View Post
I'm still confused as to how many timelines there are in Yesterday's Enterprise.
Two.

Is the war timeline still continuing?
No.
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Old October 26 2012, 04:49 AM   #36
Tosk
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise blooper??

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
los2188 wrote: View Post
I'm still confused as to how many timelines there are in Yesterday's Enterprise.
Two.
Surely it'd be three?
  1. Original.
  2. War.
  3. Original but with Tasha from War timeline now living in the past.
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Old October 26 2012, 05:34 AM   #37
Tiberius
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise blooper??

Tosk wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
los2188 wrote: View Post
I'm still confused as to how many timelines there are in Yesterday's Enterprise.
Two.
Surely it'd be three?
  1. Original.
  2. War.
  3. Original but with Tasha from War timeline now living in the past.
Possible, but I think not.

In the original timeline (I'll just refer to them by the numbers you gave to them in your post), so in 1, the peace with the Klingons required the loss of the Enterprise C at Narendra 3.

However, if the E-C ended up in Timeline 3, then the E-C was never lost at the Timeline 1 version of Narendra 3 (it simply disappeared instead). But we know that this sequence of events never occurred because if it had occurred that way, Timeline 1 would involve a war with the Klingons like Timeline 2.

So it would seem that either the E-C we saw came from yet another timeline (Timeline 4, perhaps?) so as to allow the E-C in timeline 1 to be destroyed. But if that was the case, then the arrival of the timeline 4 E-C wouldn't have altered history, because the timeline 1 E-C never disappeared to cause the change in timeline to timeline 2. This is because the E-C from TL1 MUST disappear from Narendra 3 to trigger the shift over to TL2.

The only way I can see is that TL 1 and TL 3 are the same one.
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Old October 26 2012, 07:17 AM   #38
Vanyel
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise blooper??

I think bot the original time line and the war time line both ended with Tasha going with the Enterprise C. That formed a new 3rd time line nearly identical to the original.
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Old October 26 2012, 09:31 AM   #39
Tiberius
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise blooper??

Vanyel wrote: View Post
I think bot the original time line and the war time line both ended with Tasha going with the Enterprise C. That formed a new 3rd time line nearly identical to the original.
But Tasha didn't exist in the original timeline to go to the E-C.
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Old October 26 2012, 11:09 AM   #40
Vanyel
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise blooper??

Ti-BOO!-rius wrote: View Post
Vanyel wrote: View Post
I think bot the original time line and the war time line both ended with Tasha going with the Enterprise C. That formed a new 3rd time line nearly identical to the original.
But Tasha didn't exist in the original timeline to go to the E-C.
Right, she did not exist in the original time line. Now since she goes back in time from the War time line, she ended the original and war time line.

In the 3rd timeline she does exist, in 2 places simultaneously. Kind of like Marty McFly in BTTF2. He's at 2 different places at the dance, he created a new time line again nearly identical to the one he created in BTTF1.

The 3rd time line has War time line Tasha giving birth and dieing by execution some 20 odd years before 3rd time line Tasha dies at the hands of Armus. And because she died on Romulus, she does not effect the events that we saw. All the events in the 3rd new time line are nearly identical to those in the original, except for Tasha existing in the past of that time line.
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Old October 26 2012, 11:43 AM   #41
Tiberius
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise blooper??

Vanyel wrote: View Post
Ti-BOO!-rius wrote: View Post
Vanyel wrote: View Post
I think bot the original time line and the war time line both ended with Tasha going with the Enterprise C. That formed a new 3rd time line nearly identical to the original.
But Tasha didn't exist in the original timeline to go to the E-C.
Right, she did not exist in the original time line. Now since she goes back in time from the War time line, she ended the original and war time line.

In the 3rd timeline she does exist, in 2 places simultaneously. Kind of like Marty McFly in BTTF2. He's at 2 different places at the dance, he created a new time line again nearly identical to the one he created in BTTF1.

The 3rd time line has War time line Tasha giving birth and dieing by execution some 20 odd years before 3rd time line Tasha dies at the hands of Armus. And because she died on Romulus, she does not effect the events that we saw. All the events in the 3rd new time line are nearly identical to those in the original, except for Tasha existing in the past of that time line.
Actually, I was refering to your statement, "I think bot the original time line and the war time line both ended with Tasha going with the Enterprise C."

Tasha couldn't have gone back to the Enterprise C in the original timeline, as she'd been killed several years earlier.
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Old October 26 2012, 12:08 PM   #42
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise blooper??

Tosk wrote: View Post
  1. Original.
  2. War.
  3. Original but with Tasha from War timeline now living in the past.
There is no difference between 1 and 3.
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Old October 26 2012, 03:53 PM   #43
Timo
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise blooper??

There's no particular requirement for the two to be identical, though. There could be dozens of ways the E-C could return to the past and make enough of a difference that a timeline resembling either 1 or 3 would be the result. In some, Yar might go back; in others, perhaps LaForge would, or Guinan, or then nobody from the future.

The thing is, timeline 2 comes out of nowhere - it would only come to be if the E-C failed to return through the time anomaly, but no such failure is established yet when timeline 2 suddenly becomes the focus of our attention. Timeline 2 is not the result of any action taken or omission made in timeline 1. Basically, the camera just moves to a parallel universe for a while to show what has "always" happened there (the cowardly retreat of the E-C, and the big war the Feds lose), then moves back to the regular universe to show what has "always" happened there (some anomaly hiccups, our heroes go "Huh?"). But timeline 3 sort of directly results from the actions taken in timeline 2, which makes it very suspect to being different from timeline 1 that for its part was unrelated to timeline 2.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old October 26 2012, 04:16 PM   #44
Pavonis
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise blooper??

Dukhat wrote: View Post
... Also, contrast this to "The Neutral Zone," where it was stated that the Federation had zero contact with the Romulans for 70 years...
Having just watched "The Neutral Zone", I have to point out that it was no direct contact, and it was over the last 53 years, not 70 years.

The destruction of the Enterprise-C wouldn't count as a contact with the Romulans, since Captain Garrett and her crew didn't return from the encounter. The Klingons let the Federation know of the ship's fate, so there was no direct contact between the Romulans and the Federation there.
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Old October 26 2012, 09:29 PM   #45
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise blooper??

Like I said, if - some time before this episode took place - someone had asked about what happened to the Enterprise-C, they would have found that it was destroyed in battle with Romulans at Narendra Three. And Tasha was on the ship. She came from a timeline that is now invalid, yes. But she was still there. There was never a timeline where she was not (except for the 'war future'). It's a classic paradox.

There are two, and only two, timelines in this episode. One was the war alternate timeline that existed for most of the episode. The other is the 'real' timeline, where there was no war. That's it. Timo is correct - Tasha came from 'out of nowhere', as it were. Apart from interrogating her and the ship's other survivors, no one would have any knowledge of that alternate timeline. But it still happened.
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