Star Trek Film Makers Association

[Captain Atkin]

doubleohAHHHHHH!!!!! wrote:

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Its easy to see the benefits and why it would be a good thing to include everyone; I'm just not clear on why we wouldn't want to include everyone.

I would say that anyone with a proven track record should be eligible. The idea behind this concept is to have people with a similar skills set as part of a co-operative.

[doubleohfive]

That makes perfect sense to me. Darker Projects has had, to date, at least three audio drama series, two of which (Star Trek: The Section 31 Files and Star Trek: Lost Frontier) have been promoted and distributed here on this very site for at least the last seven years. The third series, Star Trek: Pioneers, ended in 2007. I know for a fact that Section 31 Files had at least 30 episodes completed and released; we at Lost Frontier are hard at work getting ready to release our 16th and 17th episodes.

If that's not enough of a case to be made in favor of audio dramas, I also know that our friends at Pendant Productions promote their ongoing series Star Trek: Defiant here; so does Starship Excelsior. Too, the folks at Hidden Frontier also produced for a time Federation One and Henglaar, M.D. as audio dramas as well.

To my eyes - and by this rationale - the potential crossover of talent and resources is a no-brainer.

[HaplessCrewman]

What is wrong with excluding people you don't like from your own club?

If those excluded don't like it, they can form their own club...

[doubleohfive]

HaplessCrewman wrote:

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What is wrong with excluding people you don't like from your own club?

If those excluded don't like it, they can form their own club...

If that were truly the issue, it would be one thing. However, the language of this thread and the way the concept has been introduced was with the lofty and noble goal of uniting everyone together, but as this thread has demonstrably proven, "Only if the people in charge like you."

And even that's not so much of a problem, really... it's their little club to run how they see fit - but completely overreacting and then accusing other people of trolling just for asking a few questions, that's the big problem.

Personally, I'm very interested in seeing how this all plays out, and whether or not audio dramas would, in fact be welcome in this new association despite the minor bumps in the road yesterday.

I don't think it is at all unreasonable to clarify what the situation is and would be with something like this before agreeing to get into it, but thus far no one associated with the "founding members" has been able to give a clear answer to any of my questions. So for now, I'm waiting. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail and see that asking questions does not, in fact, equal trolling attacks.

[Linnear]

Tell you what doubleoh, how about telling us your real name first. Because right now you are an anonymous troll.

I think it is ridiculous to remain anonymous and expect us to take you seriously. And from the email I am getting, no one else is taking you seriously either.

And also, have you actually been part of any production? Do you represent one?

Alec Peters

[GSchnitzer]

Please remember the rules from the FAQ file from the Trek BBS board:

Privacy Issue - Private Messages, Chat Logs, Names, etc.

On the internet, a person's privacy is very valuable. Unless a poster has made it clear they don't mind, you can't post any details of their real-life identity on the board. You also cannot post material such as chat logs, emails, private messages or messages from other message boards - without the consent of all involved parties.

Some people like to remain anonymous--and that's okay.

[Barbreader]

A few things:
1) My real name is Barbara Reader. I never think to sign my posts because barbreader is just a shortening of it. OTOH, I suppose somebody might think the name means I read barbs. But, until this moment, it frankly never occurred to me that somebody might read it that way. So, I sort of do sign my posts.
2) I am not a film maker. I am a film librarian. I do not promote making Star Trek Fan Films, I promote WATCHING Star Trek Fan Films. That said, I do suspect most film makers want people to watch their films, and I can't promote the null set of films.
3) I do not claim any knowledge about filmmaking. In fact, I have never even been in a TV audience. To the best of my knowledge, in fact, I have never even been on TV as a part of a crowd in the background. I have certainly never been in a movie, written, directed, or in any other was interacted with the creation of TV or movies EXCEPT to WATCH THEM.
4) Having said all of that, I am a lawyer. I have had phone calls with people who are much more important than I am in this Star Trek Fan Film community, in part due to the fights. For that reason, I think an association with principles could help a lot if it provided underlying rules (which could be varied by any writing) for film makers who are trying to help each other and have disputes.
a). Nothing really replaces a writing, but a set of rules which kick in among all member ABSENT a writing could act as a background and set a standard, e.g.:
(i) If Fan Filmmaker A has obtained permission to rent or borrow the prop, equipment, set, etc. (hereinafter the "ST Widget") of Fan Filmmaker B, and the ST Widget breaks while in the possession of A, it is the responsibility of A to pay for it's replacement or repair unless there has been an agreement otherwise, without regard to it's initial condition. If it is in bad shape when A takes it, it is up to A to examine it and make a side agreement about this, to vary this provision.
(ii) If person alpha agrees to do editing or CGI work for filmmaker A, for free, it is understood that alpha will notify A if they decide to not do this work. It is also understood that alpha will not give the same work to B without telling A that they are having duplicate work done and will pick the better one (or the one that gets done first) later.

etc.

Standard contracts for the use of sets, costumes, props etc. owned by others (which can be varied) can also assist these transactions.

[Linnear]

Nice of you to finally show up Greg. :-) Sorry you weren't around while this guy was attacking me.

Remaining anonymous is crap. It allows people to attack others and hide behind the Internet. People can then act with a level of incivility we have seen in this thread.

I have discussions with real people since we are talking about real world relationships and productions. So if someone can't post their full real name, I refuse to waste my time. I assume the person is obviously hiding something.

Alec Peters

[T'Bonz]

Linnear, this is the Internet. It's not going to change (people posting under their real names) so you either need to grow a thicker skin, or you'll face nothing but aggravation and trouble. I feel your pain with trolls, but it is what it is.

Doubleoh, knock it the hell off.

This ends NOW. Got it?

Now let's get this back on topic. If anyone needs to argue, then kindly take it to PM.

[doubleohfive]

Linnear, as I have explained, I am asking the questions I have asked on behalf of the fan audio series I mentioned above, Star Trek: Lost Frontier, which I write for and co-produce with Chris Williams for Darker Projects. I'm not going to rehash all the interconnectivity Darker Projects has established with various fan films over the years or our very long track record for producing high quality audio drama because I've already explained precisely that in my previous posts.

As for experience, I've worked in television for the past six years in Hollywood, the last three of which have been in the writer's office of a major network series produced by ABC Studios. So I suppose you could say I do have a little bit of insight in to how these things work. I thank you for your time and consideration but will respectfully decline joining your association and wish you the best of luck.

TBonz, I apologize for the trouble my questions have caused. This was not at all my intent and I will not pursue the matter further.

[Linnear]

Actually doubleoh, we didn't offer you an invite to the association so there is nothing for you to decline.

One of our members said it best when they emailed me about you and said we only will invite people who know how to play well with others, as that is the whole point of the association. You would not be invited because you clearly don't know how to do that.

Also, we only invite real people who we can communicate with in the real world. Not people who hide their identity behind the Internet so they can attack others.

Alec Peters

[doubleohfive]

Linnear wrote:

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Actually doubleoh, we didn't offer you an invite to the association so there is nothing for you to decline.

One of our members said it best when they emailed me about you and said we only will invite people who know how to play well with others, as that is the whole point of the association. You would never be invited because you clearly don't know how to do that. And yes, we all talked through email about you and we all agreed. Actually everyone's comments about you were the same and pretty funny.

So for the record, you were not invited based on your poor behavior on this thread.

Also, we only invite real people who we can communicate with in the real world. Not people who hide their identity behind the Internet so they can attack others.

Alec Peters

Good to know.

[Linnear]

Deleted to re-post.

[{ Emilia }]

Linnear wrote:

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One of our members said it best when they emailed me about you...

I don't think you should accuse others of being belligerent when you're the guy who keeps inciting this again and again. I find this intellectually dishonest and not helpful to your cause.

Repeatedly telling another poster that "we're talking in emails behind your back and everybody agrees you're a horrible person" makes your attitude look petty and backhanded. Using that strategy repeatedly while at the same time accusing the other of being a troll is quite ironic and should make you reflect. (As a sidenote: In this case you're also using the anonymity of those mysterious buddies to make a point.)

The decent thing to do would be to keep the content of those mails private and let those who allegedly agree with you speak up here if they feel the need to. Otherwise this is strictly between you and doubleoh who seemed genuinely interested in de-escalating and asked some legitimate questions.

You are the one who came across as passive-aggressive here and reading through the entire thread has left me dumbfounded as to where that even came from. It seems doubleoh unintentionally pushed some wrong buttons but maybe you should just take a step back and relax.
Also: If you hate anonymity that much you should consider using a different venue to promote your activities. Public internet forums might not be suited for that purpose then.

Reading this thread just made me sad to be honest. Still I genuinely wish you all the best in your endeavours. We all have bad days once in a while.


ETA: I won't reply to this thread again. I don't want to cause any trouble nor am I interested in offending anybody. I just felt this needed to be said.

[Linnear]

Do you think you can let this thread serve its purpose and stop with the attacks?


Alec