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Old November 16 2012, 06:37 PM   #46
Pavonis
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Re: Why can't Latinum be replicated?

If latinum is valuable only because it is limited, then how can the money supply expand? We know it can; Ferenginar suffered from rampant inflation in the 2350s.
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Old November 17 2012, 12:05 AM   #47
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Re: Why can't Latinum be replicated?

Pavonis wrote: View Post
If latinum is valuable only because it is limited, then how can the money supply expand? We know it can; Ferenginar suffered from rampant inflation in the 2350s.
well i dunno... How does gold and silver work?
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Old November 17 2012, 12:43 AM   #48
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Re: Why can't Latinum be replicated?

Gold and silver aren't currency anymore.
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Old November 18 2012, 02:52 AM   #49
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Re: Why can't Latinum be replicated?

but they do have value. and X gold will give me Y cash. That price goes up and down.
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Old November 18 2012, 05:56 AM   #50
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Re: Why can't Latinum be replicated?

Modern currency isn't backed by gold or any other precious material. We use fiat money. But I'm supposed to believe that the Ferengi run an interstellar government and are a major power in the galactic economy because they use bits of liquidy metal that they supposedly can't replicate as a currency? This situation is considered credible?

Why does something have to incapable of being replicated to be valuable? Paper, ink, and electrons are all ridiculously common, yet that's what we use in our current financial system. Why would a supposedly more advanced civilization use simple shiny rocks as a currency?
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Old November 18 2012, 03:38 PM   #51
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Re: Why can't Latinum be replicated?

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Modern currency isn't backed by gold or any other precious material. We use fiat money. But I'm supposed to believe that the Ferengi run an interstellar government and are a major power in the galactic economy because they use bits of liquidy metal that they supposedly can't replicate as a currency? This situation is considered credible?

Why does something have to incapable of being replicated to be valuable? Paper, ink, and electrons are all ridiculously common, yet that's what we use in our current financial system. Why would a supposedly more advanced civilization use simple shiny rocks as a currency?
Thats my whole point. It can't be replicated.. THAT'S why it's so valuable.
Same thing IRL. Cash isn't that easy to make.(well) One of the reason(among many) that it holds value.
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Old November 18 2012, 04:05 PM   #52
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Re: Why can't Latinum be replicated?

Cash doesn't derive its value from being hard to make. It's paper and ink. I can make reproductions of $100 bills with my home printer. The US dollar is backed by people's faith in the government; it holds value because we all agree that it's valuable. I see no evidence that latinum is anything other than another fiat currency.

Now, printing money at home is not legal, but that's not what this topic is about. It's entirely possible that replicating latinum at home is illegal for Ferengi, and that only the Ferengi government is allowed to issue gold-pressed latinum. That doesn't make it unreplicable.

The original question was "Why can't latinum be replicated?" The question starts from the baseless assumption that it can't be replicated - but no character ever stated that it couldn't be replicated. So I see no reason to assume that it can't be replicated, because there's no evidence that it can't be replicated. It's all fanon, based on most fans cursory understanding of economics and finance. Just because the Ferengi use it as currency doesn't prove that it can't be replicated. Financial systems don't require currency to be backed by something like gold to function.
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Old November 18 2012, 06:11 PM   #53
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Re: Why can't Latinum be replicated?

Fine, if thats what you need...

Here is why it ""can't"" be replicated. Of course it can, "anything" can be replicated so long as you have the time and resources. Problem is, it's just not worth it to replicate it. Lets say one BAR would buy you 20,000kg of matter/antimatter. However to make one bar of said latinum would cost you 20,000 times that amount of matter/antimatter used in a reactor to produce. So it's cost negative to make.

There you go, that answer is just as good as any given. close the thread and move on.
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Old November 18 2012, 08:00 PM   #54
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Re: Why can't Latinum be replicated?

It would be foolish to set the value of latinum at a value far below its actual cost of production. It would have to hold at least its own production cost, whether it is mined, manufactured, or replicated. If one bar costs 400,000,000 units of matter/antimatter to produce, then it must be worth at least 400,000,000 units, and in actuality probably more.
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Old November 18 2012, 09:40 PM   #55
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Re: Why can't Latinum be replicated?

Ya, not so much. You are forgetting that i'm guessing it's mined out of the ground. Oddly enough much like diamonds are today. Oh sure we can make them easily enough. However that doesn't mean my wife wears a man made one. And while gem quality diamonds can be made.. People simply won't wear them. Never mind the fact that they are easy to spot as ""fakes"".
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Old November 18 2012, 10:04 PM   #56
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Re: Why can't Latinum be replicated?

So in your view, latinum is kept artificially scarce. Maybe so, but there's no evidence of that, either.

As for diamonds, it is a completely artificial scarcity. Your wife and mine wear diamonds that were mined, but I doubt that a layman could tell the difference between natural and "artificial" diamonds. I'm trained to find the differences. Most people aren't. Practically speaking, natural diamonds are just flawed versions of artificial diamonds.
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Old November 19 2012, 02:58 AM   #57
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Re: Why can't Latinum be replicated?

Pavonis wrote: View Post
I'm trained to find the differences.
Of course you are..

But my point is. If there is endless Latinum then what's the point?
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Old November 19 2012, 08:02 AM   #58
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Re: Why can't Latinum be replicated?

Pavonis wrote: View Post
It would be foolish to set the value of latinum at a value far below its actual cost of production.
It costs two and a half cents to make a penny.

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Old November 19 2012, 03:39 PM   #59
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Re: Why can't Latinum be replicated?

Saturn0660 wrote: View Post

But my point is. If there is endless Latinum then what's the point?
The point is the same as it is now - to earn the most latinum possible. I'm not saying the supply is infinite, I'm just saying it doesn't have to be unreplicable to be used as currency.

I'm surprised the Ferengi use anything as awkward as bars and bricks, anyway. Slips and strips of GPL seem easy enough to keep in a pocket, but the larger stuff isn't easily carried or stored. Why wouldn't they use mostly computerized banking?

No substance was ever explicitly described as being incapable of replicated. It's odd that so many fans latched on to the idea that latinum can't be replicated when there's no evidence of that being the case. It's just like when fans insisted that Spock must have been the first Vulcan in Starfleet, despite no character ever claiming that.

And yes, T'Girl, I know the one cent coin costs more to produce than it's worth at face value (and I expected you to point that out) but it is the exception, not the rule. It doesn't cost $2 to make a $1 bill.
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Old November 19 2012, 05:45 PM   #60
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Re: Why can't Latinum be replicated?

Pavonis wrote: View Post
The point is the same as it is now - to earn the most latinum possible. I'm not saying the supply is infinite, I'm just saying it doesn't have to be unreplicable to be used as currency.

I'm surprised the Ferengi use anything as awkward as bars and bricks, anyway. Slips and strips of GPL seem easy enough to keep in a pocket, but the larger stuff isn't easily carried or stored. Why wouldn't they use mostly computerized banking?

No substance was ever explicitly described as being incapable of replicated. It's odd that so many fans latched on to the idea that latinum can't be replicated when there's no evidence of that being the case. It's just like when fans insisted that Spock must have been the first Vulcan in Starfleet, despite no character ever claiming that.

And yes, T'Girl, I know the one cent coin costs more to produce than it's worth at face value (and I expected you to point that out) but it is the exception, not the rule. It doesn't cost $2 to make a $1 bill.
You make my points for me.. If it was easy to replicate then it would have NO value. Thats the point. Do you think that if i could print $100 that could be passed that i'd bother to have a job?? Why would you.. Just print up the cash for verizon bill.

BTW last year the price for printing a Nickel was up to 11 cents. How far do you want this to go. We are now up to half.
.01/.05/.10/.25 <--- normal circulation coins.
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