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Old October 14 2012, 07:59 PM   #46
hyzmarca
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Re: How can any decent person be a SW stormtrooper fan?

Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
So why would any person with a functioning soul want to be a fan of the Star Wars universe equivalent? The organized SW Imperial fandom, the 501st, explicitly takes it's name from the most infamous of all stormtrooper divisions, being the one that prosecuted the genocide against the Jedi.

Unlike the Jews, the Jedi really did have superpowers, really did wield a massive amount of authority, they really did support widespread persecution, and really were conspiring to overthrow the elected government and replace it with their own brutal totalitarian theocracy.
At least Palpatine's empire was secular, rather than driven by religious fanaticism. Support for the Jedi is basically equivalent to support for the Taliban.
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Old October 14 2012, 08:01 PM   #47
the G-man
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Re: How can any decent person be a SW stormtrooper fan?

Conscious Circuits wrote: View Post
Some people think that people who dress up as witches etc. on Halloween glorify devil worship.

True story: When my stepdaughter was about eight, she dressed up as the Wicked Witch of the West for Halloween and the public school's "diversity coordinator" gave her a lecture about how her costume was hate speech against Wiccans.

I don't remember the diversity coodinator's name, but I'm starting to think it might have been "Ian Keldon"
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Old October 14 2012, 08:01 PM   #48
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Re: How can any decent person be a SW stormtrooper fan?

Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
So why would any person with a functioning soul want to be a fan of the Star Wars universe equivalent? The organized SW Imperial fandom, the 501st, explicitly takes it's name from the most infamous of all stormtrooper divisions, being the one that prosecuted the genocide against the Jedi.
It's the other way around, IIRC. They named that unit so in lore as a shout-out to the 501st fan organization.

Although I am interested in what a dysfunctional soul would work like.

Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
I don't think the Sopranos should have ever been made, now that you mention it. It was an attempt to "humanize" the American Mob.
...mobsters are human beings. You know that, right?

Whatever one thinks of the Sopranos, acknowledging that people who do horrible things are still people is important. The Nazis were not cartoons, and cartoonifying them as a non-human Other sidesteps the fact that perfectly human people with perfectly human desires can do perfectly inhuman things.

Although yeah, all this said: The Empire are the bad guys. The original trilogy has pretty clear morality on this score (things are a great deal murkier in the prequel trilogy, like the whole clone army deal but this is another argument). People who argue that the rebels where somehow the real problem or the Empire wasn't that bad are being kind of silly, not that I've honestly seen many people like that. I assume most people who dress up as stormtroopers are Star Wars fans referencing something cool looking from the movies - and yeah, stormtroopers, imperial star destroyers, the death star, Darth Vader, these things look cool, even if they are given to the franchise's designated 'black hat' faction.
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Old October 14 2012, 08:07 PM   #49
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Re: How can any decent person be a SW stormtrooper fan?

the G-man wrote: View Post
True story: When my stepdaughter was about eight, she dressed up as the Wicked Witch of the West for Halloween and the public school's "diversity coordinator" gave her a lecture about how her costume was hate speech against Wiccans.
Oh, bloody hell...
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Old October 14 2012, 08:11 PM   #50
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Re: How can any decent person be a SW stormtrooper fan?

the G-man wrote: View Post
True story: When my stepdaughter was about eight, she dressed up as the Wicked Witch of the West for Halloween and the public school's "diversity coordinator" gave her a lecture about how her costume was hate speech against Wiccans.
Ugh.
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Old October 14 2012, 08:13 PM   #51
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Re: How can any decent person be a SW stormtrooper fan?

the G-man wrote: View Post
True story: When my stepdaughter was about eight, she dressed up as the Wicked Witch of the West for Halloween and the public school's "diversity coordinator" gave her a lecture about how her costume was hate speech against Wiccans.
"School diversity coordinator."

What a laugh. Might as well call them "common sense and fun obliterators."
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Old October 14 2012, 08:13 PM   #52
JarodRussell
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Re: How can any decent person be a SW stormtrooper fan?

Parents allowing their kids to play cowboys and indians should be sent to prison as well. Especially the cowboys' parents.



And let's not even start talking about people dressing up as serial killers for Halloween...
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Old October 14 2012, 08:16 PM   #53
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Re: How can any decent person be a SW stormtrooper fan?

the G-man wrote: View Post
Conscious Circuits wrote: View Post
Some people think that people who dress up as witches etc. on Halloween glorify devil worship.

True story: When my stepdaughter was about eight, she dressed up as the Wicked Witch of the West for Halloween and the public school's "diversity coordinator" gave her a lecture about how her costume was hate speech against Wiccans.

I don't remember the diversity coodinator's name, but I'm starting to think it might have been "Ian Keldon"
And exactly how is dressing up as Elphaba Hate Speech against Wiccans? If you ask me, The Diversity Coordinator was committing Hate Speech by implying an unattractive Witch was somehow an insult to Wiccanism. Isn't stamping out Hatred/Prejudice against Ugly people just as important as any other Group "Diversity Brigades" seek to protect?

Anyone who's seen The Wizard of Oz 1939 version can clearly see Glinda is the evil one.

First, Glinda puts the shoes on Dorothy and then taunts the Witch of the West with "The shoes are right there on her feet, and that's right where they'll stay" - Talk about leading a lamb into slaughter. Plus, she knew the whole time all Dorothy had to do was click her heels together 3 times and Chant, "There's No Place Like Home". But, no, Glinda wanted that witch dead, and set The Wicked Witch against Dorothy, so, Dorothy would have no choice but to kill her.

I'm getting angry just thinking about this injustice, and then for The Witch of The West to be painted as the Evil One
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Old October 14 2012, 08:18 PM   #54
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Re: How can any decent person be a SW stormtrooper fan?

Sindatur wrote: View Post
So, not even an attempt to answer how dressing up as Storm Troopers at a Con is any different then Dressing up as Darth Vader or the Genocidal characters/races in Star Trek or Doctor Who?
I don't support dressing as a Sith either, or cybermen, etc. I wouldn't oppose a Romulan, Klingon, et al per se, because races aren't evil. Individuals and organizations are. It's possible to be a non-evil Klingon, Cardassian or Romulan.

It's not possbile to be a non-evil stormtrooper, Cobra soldier, Cyberman, etc.
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Old October 14 2012, 08:20 PM   #55
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Re: How can any decent person be a SW stormtrooper fan?

Derp-O'-Lantern wrote: View Post
Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
The 501st in the SW universe was the spearhead division in Palpatine/Sidious' Final Solution to the Jedi.
You do know that he movie's 501st division was a shout-out the real fan group The Fightin' 501st - a costumed charity group that, amongst other things, visits sick kids in the hospital - right? The fan group came first; having the fictional version go kill a bunch of kids was a joke on Lucas's part.
Then it's a sick joke. I dare the 501st to try going to a charity event dressed as real world SS soldiers and see how well they would be recieved.

SW Imperials are no different. In that universe they did what the Nazis did here on a galactic scale.
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Old October 14 2012, 08:22 PM   #56
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Re: How can any decent person be a SW stormtrooper fan?

That's odd. There are books and graphic novels in the SW universe where some Stormtroopers and Imperial officers have a conscience and want to do the right and good things. Han Solo was a cadet and later a young officer in the Imperial Navy before he freed Chewbacca from slavery and was booted from the Imperial military.

So...Han Solo was an evil dirtbag the entire time and just putting on a really good show for the Rebels?
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Old October 14 2012, 08:22 PM   #57
CorporalCaptain
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Re: How can any decent person be a SW stormtrooper fan?

Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
I dare the 501st to try going to a charity event dressed as real world SS soldiers and see how well they would be recieved.
Why the fuck would they do that?!?
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Old October 14 2012, 08:28 PM   #58
Ian Keldon
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Re: How can any decent person be a SW stormtrooper fan?

the G-man wrote: View Post
Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
"It's just fiction" is no excuse. The Empire is evil. People with functioning consciences are not fans of evil.
I can't wait for this Halloween when some poor little kid shows up at your door dressed as the Joker, Lord Voldemort or some other fictional evil character and you give the child a ten minute lecture on being devoid of a functioning conscience.

I don't do trick or treat at all, and there are no kids of that age in my neighborhood that I know of if I did.

Ghouleddie74 wrote: View Post
The Visitors in the original 1983-85 incarnation of V were modeled on the Nazis. They even had a symbol on their craft and uniforms that was a modified swastika.

Jane Badler: racist and anti-Semite.
There is a difference between an actor accurately portraying an evil character and a fan dressing to show approbation of the evil character's cause.

sojourner wrote: View Post
I guess I just found another member of this board that truly doesn't understand the difference between fact and fiction. It's amazing how many there are.
I understand it quite well, thank you. And dressing like an evil character outside of a theatrical/filmmaking context indicates support FOR said evil.

the G-man wrote: View Post
And let's not forget Indiana Jones, who disguised himself as an actual Nazi. I'm starting to think Harrison Ford must be a Jew hater.
See above.

hyzmarca wrote: View Post
Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
So why would any person with a functioning soul want to be a fan of the Star Wars universe equivalent? The organized SW Imperial fandom, the 501st, explicitly takes it's name from the most infamous of all stormtrooper divisions, being the one that prosecuted the genocide against the Jedi.
Unlike the Jews, the Jedi really did have superpowers, really did wield a massive amount of authority, they really did support widespread persecution, and really were conspiring to overthrow the elected government and replace it with their own brutal totalitarian theocracy.
At least Palpatine's empire was secular, rather than driven by religious fanaticism. Support for the Jedi is basically equivalent to support for the Taliban.
Seek professional help.
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Old October 14 2012, 08:29 PM   #59
SG-17
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Re: How can any decent person be a SW stormtrooper fan?

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
SG-17 wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
So, not even an attempt to answer how dressing up as Storm Troopers at a Con is any different then Dressing up as Darth Vader or the Genocidal characters/races in Star Trek or Doctor Who?
Like the Doctor himself for one.
Or Sisko, or Picard, Or Janeway, or Kirk. How about dressing up as a Klingon or a Romulan or a Borg?

Oh my <please insert divine figure on your choice>...every cosplayer on the planet worships evil!
Wait, when did Picard commit genocide?
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Old October 14 2012, 08:30 PM   #60
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Re: How can any decent person be a SW stormtrooper fan?

Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
And dressing like an evil character outside of a theatrical/filmmaking context indicates support FOR said evil.
To you it does.
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