RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,915
Posts: 5,388,556
Members: 24,720
Currently online: 494
Newest member: manogars

TrekToday headlines

IDW Publishing November Trek Comic
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Pegg/Wright Trilogy In The Works
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Star Trek: The Compendium Rebate Details
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Gold Key Archives Volume 2
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Takei Documentary Wins Award
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Cumberbatch To Voice Khan
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Shaun And Ed On Phineas and Ferb
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

New Ships Coming From Official Starships Collection
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

Trek Stars Take On Ice Bucket Challenge
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

Retro Review: Profit and Lace
By: Michelle on Aug 16


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 15 2012, 03:50 PM   #1
Romulan_spy
Commodore
 
Location: Terre Haute, IN. USA
question regarding self-replicating minefield protecting wormhole

Ok, so we know the self-replicating minefield is able to create new mines to replace any mines that are destroyed. But wouldn't it still be possible to destroy the minefield if you are able to destroy the mines faster than new ones are replicated? Especially, considering that the Dominion and Cardassians had a huge fleet of ships, couldn't they had just targeted all the mines at once?
Romulan_spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2012, 03:55 PM   #2
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: question regarding self-replicating minefield protecting wormhole

Certainly. But it was impossible to target even a single mine, as the mines were invisible.

Just firing blindly at a high density of fire would be bad for two reasons: you still wouldn't hit anything much, and you would be pumping out so much energy that the replicators in the mines could "feed" on that to create more mines.

I mean, that's apparently how the self-replication happens: the replicators get new raw ingredients chiefly out of energy that flies past them, be it from weapons fire or from the explosions of nearby fellow mines. A piece of wreckage may be a feast, but stray energy is probably the bread and butter.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2012, 03:59 PM   #3
Romulan_spy
Commodore
 
Location: Terre Haute, IN. USA
Re: question regarding self-replicating minefield protecting wormhole

Timo wrote: View Post
Certainly. But it was impossible to target even a single mine, as the mines were invisible.

Just firing blindly at a high density of fire would be bad for two reasons: you still wouldn't hit anything much, and you would be pumping out so much energy that the replicators in the mines could "feed" on that to create more mines.

I mean, that's apparently how the self-replication happens: the replicators get new raw ingredients chiefly out of energy that flies past them, be it from weapons fire or from the explosions of nearby fellow mines. A piece of wreckage may be a feast, but stray energy is probably the bread and butter.

Timo Saloniemi
After I posted the thread I realized about the mines being cloaked. But wouldn't the Dominion have the tech to detect cloaked mines?
Romulan_spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2012, 04:10 PM   #4
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: question regarding self-replicating minefield protecting wormhole

They are credited with point-blank means of defeating the Romulan cloak on the Defiant, using antiproton probing beams. Not infallible means, though, but usually effective as long as the prey doesn't actively try to slip away. But the Romulans probably sold Starfleet the crappiest possible cloak, and Sisko might have used better cloaks on the mines, perhaps ones designed by Starfleet's Klingon allies. We know Klingons are master cloakers - they have infiltrated Romulan space on occasion, even deploying agents to the Romulan homeworld ("Unification")!

The Dominion is later credited with a sensor array that can detect cloaked ships "over five sectors", too. Supposedly, that's a completely different technology, and supposedly, our heroes specifically worry that it works against the cloaks of their Klingon allies. Plus, the Dominion has cloaked mines of its own, sort of: it knows how to dip mines in subspace, as in "Siege of AR-558".

However, O'Brien argues that while the Dominion can detect cloaked ships, the small size of the mines would make all the difference in the efficacy of cloaking. Apparently, he's right...

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2012, 04:21 PM   #5
Romulan_spy
Commodore
 
Location: Terre Haute, IN. USA
Re: question regarding self-replicating minefield protecting wormhole

Timo wrote: View Post

However, O'Brien argues that while the Dominion can detect cloaked ships, the small size of the mines would make all the difference in the efficacy of cloaking. Apparently, he's right...

Timo Saloniemi
True that the small size of the mines would also help a lot. Defeating the cloak of a large object like a starship would obviously be easier than defeating the cloak on an object that is already very small.
Romulan_spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2012, 04:28 PM   #6
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: question regarding self-replicating minefield protecting wormhole

...Especially if your countermeasure is based on pointing an antiproton beam at the cloak. A glancing hit on the corner of a starship cloak is easier to achieve than a hit on a mine just one meter across, when you are aiming blindly.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2012, 05:17 PM   #7
Romulan_spy
Commodore
 
Location: Terre Haute, IN. USA
Re: question regarding self-replicating minefield protecting wormhole

Timo wrote: View Post
...Especially if your countermeasure is based on pointing an antiproton beam at the cloak. A glancing hit on the corner of a starship cloak is easier to achieve than a hit on a mine just one meter across, when you are aiming blindly.

Timo Saloniemi
I wonder if it would be possible to emit a very wide anti-proton beam instead of a narrow beam. A wide beam could encompass a larger area and possibly detect more mines at once.
Romulan_spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2012, 05:30 PM   #8
pimp
Commander
 
pimp's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom, London
Re: question regarding self-replicating minefield protecting wormhole

I also want to add that when we see them putting the minefield up it is in a straight line. Which to me makes no sense as they can just simply fly over it. Or as soon as they come out of wormhole they can stop and fly into a different direction from the wall of mines. In order to fully mine the WH they should have mined a big spherical pattern around the WH to encompass it.


Oh and sorry this is kinda the same stuff I said in a similar thread ages ago, which we discussed in detail.
__________________
No one here is exactly what he seems - G'Kar
pimp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2012, 06:29 PM   #9
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: question regarding self-replicating minefield protecting wormhole

But the wormhole appears to be highly directional: you can only enter and exit from one direction. If the minefield is a two-dimensional sheet covering that direction, it blocks the wormhole all right.

Actually, it looks like at least two 2D sheets in parallel here:

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...toarms_224.jpg

And here, just before completion:

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...toarms_708.jpg

Also, no doubt the mines are capable of some maneuvering to cover any holes created in the field.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2012, 06:30 PM   #10
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: question regarding self-replicating minefield protecting wormhole

But the opening to the wormhole isn't three dimentional, it's two. If the mine field "wall' were right at the opening to the wormhole tunnel, there would be no going around it.

I don't think you can approach the wormhole from behind and still enter it.

T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2012, 06:48 PM   #11
Sindatur
Vice Admiral
 
Sindatur's Avatar
 
Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: question regarding self-replicating minefield protecting wormhole

T'Girl wrote: View Post
But the opening to the wormhole isn't three dimentional, it's two. If the mine field "wall' were right at the opening to the wormhole tunnel, there would be no going around it.

I don't think you can approach the wormhole from behind and still enter it.

Yea, that Wormhole didn't roll like that, no entry from behind
__________________
One Day I hope to be the Man my Cat thinks I am

Where are we going? And why are we in this Handbasket?
Sindatur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2012, 07:09 PM   #12
BennyRussel
Commander
 
BennyRussel's Avatar
 
Location: Right around the corner. Just across the track.
Re: question regarding self-replicating minefield protecting wormhole

Sindatur wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
But the opening to the wormhole isn't three dimentional, it's two. If the mine field "wall' were right at the opening to the wormhole tunnel, there would be no going around it.

I don't think you can approach the wormhole from behind and still enter it.

Yea, that Wormhole didn't roll like that, no entry from behind
Actually, according to Memory Alpha it took exactly three glasses of blood wine to make that possible.
__________________
"No I don't hate Balboa. But I pity the fool."
- C. Lang
1982
BennyRussel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15 2012, 07:43 PM   #13
Sindatur
Vice Admiral
 
Sindatur's Avatar
 
Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: question regarding self-replicating minefield protecting wormhole

BennyRussel wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
But the opening to the wormhole isn't three dimentional, it's two. If the mine field "wall' were right at the opening to the wormhole tunnel, there would be no going around it.

I don't think you can approach the wormhole from behind and still enter it.

Yea, that Wormhole didn't roll like that, no entry from behind
Actually, according to Memory Alpha it took exactly three glasses of blood wine to make that possible.


What happens under the influence of Blood Wine stays under the influence of Blood Wine
__________________
One Day I hope to be the Man my Cat thinks I am

Where are we going? And why are we in this Handbasket?
Sindatur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 16 2012, 07:28 AM   #14
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: question regarding self-replicating minefield protecting wormhole

So long as it's a 2309 Bloodwine.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 16 2012, 03:19 PM   #15
pimp
Commander
 
pimp's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom, London
Re: question regarding self-replicating minefield protecting wormhole

I thought wormholes don't have dimensions ? or am I thinking of Blackholes (ain't they the same thing??) . As I always understood the only way to explain how they work is to use a 2D illustration and they don't have any dimensions to them. Any ways I maybe wrong about this.
__________________
No one here is exactly what he seems - G'Kar
pimp is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:45 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.