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TrekToday http://www.trektoday.com/content Daily Star Trek news Sun, 02 Aug 2015 16:53:37 +0000 en-US hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.3 Retro Review: Learning Curve http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/retro-review-learning-curve/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/retro-review-learning-curve/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 21:16:02 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41256 Tuvok attempts to train four Maquis crewmembers who are having difficulty following Starfleet protocols.

Plot Summary: Lieutenant Dalby discovers a malfunctioning bio-neural gel pack and replaces it without getting authorization, which causes several systems ship-wide to stop working. Tuvok expresses concern to Janeway that Dalby and some other Maquis crewmembers are not trained or disciplined enough to work on a Starfleet vessel. Though Janeway is more worried about the possibility of multiple gel pack failures disabling Voyager’s systems, she recommends an on-the-job training course for the crewmembers having the greatest difficulties. Chakotay gives onetime Starfleet Academy instructor Tuvok a list of possible candidates, from which Tuvok selects four junior officers – impulsive Dalby, belligerent Henley, unfocused Chell, and bitter Gerron – who deeply resent being singled out for extra attention. The group complains when Tuvok insists that they remove all traces of their personal style from their professional demeanor and marches out after what they consider to be an unfair physical exercise. Neelix offers Tuvok some wisdom about plant stalks needing to be flexible, which Tuvok at first takes to mean that the young crewmembers are too rigid, then discovers that Neelix means to criticize himself and his teaching methods. He tries to get to know Dalby and realizes that some of the Maquis crewmembers suffered traumas that make it impossible for them to become contented, well-adjusted Starfleet officers overnight. Meanwhile, the Doctor discovers that Neelix’s attempt to make cheese has cultivated a bacteria that now infects the gel packs. The Doctor proposes raising the temperature to help the gel packs fight off the infection, but although the gel packs are saved, Tuvok and his unhappy team become trapped in a cargo bay where Gerron is injured. Dalby becomes irate when Tuvok orders him to get to safety with Henley and Chell, but when Tuvok himself violates procedure, risking his life to save Gerron, the Maquis officers are impressed and promise to work harder to obey the rules.

Analysis: I didn’t like “Learning Curve” when it first aired for its obnoxious attitude toward Maquis dissidents and indeed toward anyone who refused to assimilate entirely into Starfleet’s arbitrary regulations, which I thought at the time might just reflect my lack of understanding of how military protocols worked. But it rubs me the wrong way even more so now that we’ve seen some of the history of Vulcan intolerance in Enterprise, and now that we know the Maquis will be asked to give up their sense of belonging to their own cultures as well as their identities as members of an organization in conflict with Starfleet (the latter a demand that’s completely justified on a mission like Voyager’s, though I note that Worf was allowed to wear the accoutrements of a Klingon warrior on duty even when the Klingons were at war with the Federation). Of course it’s a problem that many of the Maquis have not had Starfleet training in teamwork, physical fitness, even self-protection, though I might note that Neelix and Kes haven’t either. It would seem both reasonable and fair for Tuvok to include them in a course to get underprepared crewmembers ready for life traveling through the Delta Quadrant, particularly since Kes had never left her village, let alone her homeworld, until just before Voyager arrived. The cheese incident that almost destroys the bio-neural gel packs is a far more heinous betrayal of safety protocols than the replacement of one of those gel packs, even if Dalby is rude when reprimanded while Neelix only stammers in embarrassment. And surely there are Starfleet crewmembers as well as Maquis who were unprepared to have a brief mission into the Badlands turn into a potentially lifelong journey? Couldn’t many of the junior officers use a refresher course in focus and teamwork? If Janeway and Chakotay’s goal is to get their two crews functioning as a single unit with the same ease with which Torres now works with Carey, they’d be well advised to include some Starfleet officers in the remedial class even just for show. Not so long ago, Tom Paris was a criminal and Torres was punching fellow officers, while now they’re fourth and fifth in the command chain; seems like a lot of people on that ship could use a bit of extra attention.

And although Tuvok may have been an Academy instructor for more than a decade, he seems like the wrong person to be leading an exercise in new-to-Starfleet teamwork. These angry, demoralized Maquis crewmembers need a counselor, not a disciplinarian; the morale officer might do them more good, and indeed does them more good when he lectures Tuvok, than a stern Vulcan whom they consider a traitor to their cause. I think it’s a mistake that we see the senior officers’ point of view rather than that of the recruits, since we don’t get to learn the positive independent-minded aspects of what Chakotay dismisses as “the Maquis way.” A strong left hook may get someone hauled before a disciplinary committee in Starfleet, but we’ve had such behavior by the Klingons rammed down our throats for years now as something we should admire, so it just doesn’t look particularly outrageous when a Maquis crewmember does precisely what a Klingon would do in a similar situation of being singled out for his temper. Apart from Dalby, who joined the Maquis because Cardassians brutalized his girlfriend, we never get to know the Maquis crewmembers, and the more Tuvok talks, the more arrogant he seems, like the obnoxious Vulcans of “Take Me Out to the Holosuite” rather than thoughtful, nuanced individuals like Spock and Sarek. Now that the US military and other such organizations have relaxed their rules about whether and when soldiers can wear yarmulkes, hijabs, and other items directly related to the practice of religion, I feel even more justified in my fury against Tuvok when he orders Gerron to take off his Bajoran earring – an accessory quite different from the headband that Tuvok forbids Henley to wear. The Bajoran earring is a symbol of faith. It’s also a mark of one’s family and social caste, two things that the young Gerron has lost being stranded 70,000 light years from home. Whether he had lost those already in a traumatic incident that led him to join the Maquis, as Dalby seems to believe, or whether he joined the Maquis out of sympathy for the settlers’ desire to protect their homes, like Kasidy Yates, Gerron is clearly clinging to this one meaningful relic of his former life, which Tuvok orders him to put away without any care for its significance.

Clearly, Tuvok is obsessed with the letter of the law rather than its spirit – he’s closer to being Javert from Les Miserables than was Sisko when Eddington mocked him with that sobriquet – but given the pettiness of the Vulcans we saw in many TNG and DS9 episodes, I gather we’re supposed to assume that it’s because Tuvok’s a Vulcan, for whom logic demands holding even to the most trivial of regulations. But I can’t understand why Chakotay agrees to let someone whom he thought served his own cause, then turned out to have been working behind his back all along, serve as corrections officer for other Maquis crewmembers. Chakotay’s facial tattoo would not be permitted even in the current US military, and I’d love to hear his response if Tuvok ordered him to remove it or cover it up. He’s usually a champion of diversity and broadmindedness, yet he seems amused at the thought of having four shipmates for whom he was once responsible, who are as troubled as they are troubling, put under Tuvok’s yoke. Of course ship-wide discipline is important in a crisis, as we see when it takes much of the crew working together to solve the problem with the gel packs, but a rigid dress code for people who will be working together for many years can hardly be the element that makes them see themselves as a team. It will be acknowledging, understanding, accepting, and taking advantage of their differences which will accomplish that. If the Starfleet uniform serves to bond Voyager’s crew in early days, it later serves to homogenize them; no wonder Sisko preferred spending his off-duty hours in African dress and Kira never stopped wearing her Bajoran earring even when in Starfleet uniform. “Learning Curve” fails in its effort to be “Lower Decks” because it fears to let us get to know and admire the quirks of the individual Maquis, erasing their distinct histories and grievances even as Janeway’s off playing traditional British governess in a traditional British novel knockoff. She needs to spend more time thinking about exactly which aspects of the Federation she plans to keep thriving on her ship as it creeps toward home.

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Star Trek: The Exhibition In Washington State http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-the-exhibition-in-washington-state/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-the-exhibition-in-washington-state/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 19:00:37 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41252 Star Trek: The Exhibition will be arriving at the Washington State Fair in September.

The Washington State Fair will take place September 11-27 in Puyallup.

Star Trek: The Exhibition, under license by CBS Consumer Products, will run for seventeen days and gives visitors the opportunity to enjoy an interactive, museum-style experience of one of the largest collections of authentic Star Trek artifacts and information ever put on public display. This is a separate ticketed exhibit, and requires Fair admission. Exhibit tickets can be purchased in advance for $6.50 until Sept 10 here, or $8 at the State Fair. Children five years and under are free in the exhibit with a paid adult. Online orders are subject to standard processing fees.

The Exhibition brings visitors into the Star Trek universe and allows them to connect with iconic Star Trek moments. Throughout this experience, visitors, especially younger visitors and youth, will be inspired and motivated to seek out more education, and perhaps ignite a passion for lifelong learning and careers in science and technology.

Star Trek fans and novices alike will have a first-hand interactive experience to explore the worlds, wisdom, science, stories, cultures, characters, fashions and fantasies of the Star Trek universe. In the States, and around the world, Star Trek has become a sub-culture for many, supported by countless fan conventions and fan gatherings where many regularly gather and role-play in their favorite Star Trek characters.

“Among the main attractions of The Exhibition is the opportunity to sit in the legendary Captain’s chair where Captain Kirk and subsequently Captain Picard took command of the U.S.S. Enterprise; the opportunity to pose in front of a replica of the U.S.S. Enterprise; and one-of-a-kind displays, interactive kiosks and rare photo opportunities.”

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August-September 2015 Trek Conventions And Appearances http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/august-september-2015-trek-conventions-and-appearances/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/august-september-2015-trek-conventions-and-appearances/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:53:51 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41248 There will be nineteen conventions, shows or appearances in August and September that will feature actors of interest to Star Trek fans.

This listing of conventions and shows features actors from all of the televised series and several of the Star Trek movies.

August begins with The Official Star Trek Convention will be held Aug. 6-9 at the Rio Suites Hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada. In attendance at The Official Star Trek Convention will be Marc Alaimo, Vaughn Armstrong, Richard Arnold, Rene Auberjonois, Robert Beltran, Casey Biggs, John Billingsley, Brannon Braga, Bobby Clark, Joan Collins, Jeffrey Combs, Denise Crosby, Olivia d’Abo, Michael Dante, James Darren, Roxanne Dawson, Nicole de Boer, John de Lancie, Elizabeth Dennehy (Commander Shelby), Chris Doohan, Michael Dorn, Doug Drexler, Aron Eisenberg, Terry Farrell, Jonathan Frakes, Bryan Fuller, Joseph Gatt, Max Grodenchik, Richard Herd, J.G. Hertzler, Jennifer Hetrick (Vash), Manu Intiraymi, Sherry Jackson, Salome Jens, Dominic Keating, Walter Koenig, Alice Krige, Cirroc Lofton, Don Marshall, Chase Masterson, Robert Duncan McNeill, Anthony Montgomery, Ronald B. Moore, Kate Mulgrew, Larry Nemecek, Adam Nimoy, Denise Okuda, Mike Okuda, Robert O’Reilly, Linda Park, Ethan Phillips, Robert Picardo, Andrew Robinson, Rod Roddenberry, David L. Ross (Lt. Galloway and Lt. Johnson), Saul Rubinek, Tim Russ, Jeri Ryan, Judson Scott (Joachim from The Wrath of Khan), William Shatner, Mark Allen Shepherd (Morn), William Morgan Sheppard, Armin Shimerman, Alexander Siddig, Marina Sirtis, Rick Sternbach, Sir Patrick Stewart, Kitty Swink, George Takei, Connor Trinneer, Karl Urban, Nana Visitor, Garrett Wang, and Michael Westmore.

Next up is Shore Leave, to be held Aug. 7-9 at the Baltimore Hunt Valley Inn in Hunt Valley, Maryland. In attendance at Shore Leave will be Daniel Davis (Professor James Moriarty).

The Steel City Con will be held Aug. 7-9 at the Monroeville Convention Center in Monroeville, Pennsylvania. In attendance at Steel City Con will be Nichelle Nichols.

The Dublin Comic Con will be held Aug. 8-9 at the Convention Centre Dublin in Dublin, Ireland. In attendance at Dublin Comic Con will be Gates McFadden.

The Windsor ComiCon will be held Aug. 15-16 at the Caesars Windsor in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at Windsor ComiCon will be Marina Sirtis.

Crypticon Kansas City will take place Aug. 21-23 at the Howard Johnson Plaza in Kansas City, Missouri. In attendance at Crypticon Kansas City will be Sid Haig, Chris Sarandon, and Tony Todd.

Walker Stalker Con will be held Aug. 22-23 at the Westin Waterfront in Boston, Massachusetts. In attendance at Walker Stalker Con will be Denise Crosby.

The Central Coast Comic Con will take place Aug. 28-30 at the Ventura County Fairgrounds in Ventura, California. In attendance at Central Coast Comic Con will be Sid Haig (Lawgiver in Return of the Archons) and Deep Roy.

Wrapping up August will be the Bournemouth Film & Comic Con, to be held Aug. 29-30 at the Bournemouth International Centre in Bournemouth, England. In attendance at the Bournemouth Film & Comic Con will be Max Grodenchik.

September begins with Fan Expo Canada, which will be held Sept. 3-6 at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at Fan Expo Canada will be Jeffrey Combs, Malcolm McDowell, Jennifer Morrison, Kate Mulgrew, Ethan Phillips, Robert Picardo, and Jeri Ryan.

Dragon*Con will take place Sept. 4-7 at several hotels in Atlanta, Georgia. In attendance at Dragon*Con will be Terry Farrell, Jonathan Frakes, Gary Lockwood, and Paul McGillion.

Wizard World Comic Con San Jose will be held Sept. 4-6 at the San Jose Convention Center in San Jose, California. In attendance at Wizard World Comic Con San Jose will be Adrienne Barbeau.

The Alamo City Comic Con will be held Sept. 11-13 at the Henry B. Gonzalez Convention Center in San Antonio, Texas. In attendance at Alamo City Comic Con will be Olivia d’Abo and Ron Perlman.

The Wizard World Comic Con Pittsburgh will be held Sept. 11-13 at the David L. Lawrence Convention Center in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Appearing at Wizard World Comic Con Pittsburgh will be Colm Meaney and William Shatner.

RocCon will be held Sept. 11-13 at the Kodak Event Center in Rochester, New York. In attendance at RocCon will be Nichelle Nichols and Marina Sirtis.

Wizard World Comic Con Columbus will be held Sept. 18-20 at the Greater Columbus Convention Center in Columbus, Ohio. Appearing at Wizard World Comic Con Columbus will be Brent Spiner.

The Rose City Comic Con will be held Sept. 19-20 at the Oregon Convention Center in Portland, Oregon. In attendance at Rose City Comic Con will be Walter Koenig, Nichelle Nichols, and Wil Wheaton.

The Salt Lake Comic Con will be held Sept. 24-26 at the Salt Palace in Salt Lake City, Utah. Walter Koenig will be appearing at the Salt Lake Comic Con.

September wraps up with the London Comic Con, to be held Sept. 25-27 at the Western Fair District in London, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at the London Comic Con will be Nicole de Boer and Ron Perlman.

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Shatner To Pen Book On Nimoy http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/shatner-to-pen-book-on-nimoy/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/shatner-to-pen-book-on-nimoy/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:45:58 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41245 William Shatner is planning on writing a book about his friend Leonard Nimoy.

Shatner considered Nimoy to be a brother to him.

“I’m writing a book about Leonard,” said Shatner. “I had a brother, whose life arc was so much like mine that we understood each other completely. Our age, our birth, the same types of problems in our marriages – our careers arced in the same manner.

“We had a great deal in common, Leonard and I. And thusly we were able to understand each other. I’ve lost a dear friend.”

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Star Trek Beyond Building Continues http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-beyond-building-continues/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-beyond-building-continues/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:42:43 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41236 More photographs from the Star Trek Beyond set have emerged.

Five new photos show the progress made in building the set which began back in May.

STB-1

The first photo shows the bare bones of the set back in May.

STB-2

The second photo shows what appeared to be a building with some broken trees on it.

STB-3

In the third photo, it becomes clear that the second photo was not a building, but hills with broken trees. The plywood of the second photo has been covered with dirt.

STB-4

STB-5

In the last two photos, the “hills” set is being expanded.

Larger-sized photos are available at the referring site.

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Trinneer In Western Horror http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/trinneer-in-western-horror/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/trinneer-in-western-horror/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:14:05 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41232 Fans of Connor Trinneer will be able to see the actor in a western horror movie set to release on DVD and VOD beginning August 4.

The movie is called A Good Day To Die.

In A Good Day To Die, “Baron Emerson uses his vast wealth to travel the world and hunt. He does not hunt animals, he hunts warriors. The Baron arrives at the American frontier and is looking for his next prey. An outlaw gunslinger named Chamberlin who is in jail and set to be hanged. The Baron arranges for Chamberlin to be freed so that he can hunt him like an animal in a bloody game of life and death in the Wild West.”

Trinneer portrays the hunted Chamberlin, while Robert Koroluck is the hunter Baron Emerson. Others included in A Good Day To Die include Nadia Lanfranconi, Jay Kown, and Leia Perez.

A Good Day To Die was written and directed by Rene Perez.

The movie has already made its European debut, where it was released under the title Prey For Death.

For US fans, to pre-order A Good Day To Die, which sells for $8.46, head to the link located here.

 

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Beam Me Up Scotty Figurines http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/beam-me-up-scotty-figurines/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/beam-me-up-scotty-figurines/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:10:46 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41229 Two new original series figures feature Kirk and Spock in the process of “beaming up.”

The figures will be available from Funko beginning next month.

Each poseable figure is 3 3/4″ in height and features a beaming effect (the bottom part of each character shows this effect). “Captain James T. Kirk [and Spock have five] points of articulation and features unique accessories and the 1980s style card back design.”

The Beaming Kirk and Spock ReAction figures will ship next month. Each sells for $12.99 and can be pre-ordered here for Kirk, and here for Spock.

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UK Auction To Feature Spock Costume http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/uk-auction-to-feature-spock-costume/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/uk-auction-to-feature-spock-costume/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:08:35 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41226 TrekUKAuction073015

An auction to be held in the UK this autumn will feature a costume worn by Leonard Nimoy.

The Prop Store and Odeon Entertainment Memorabilia Live Auction will take place September 23.

The catalog for the auction isn’t available yet, but at least two Star Trek items will be auctioned.

A costume worn by Nimoy during the second season (blue shirt and black trousers) will be up for auction, and is expected to fetch up to £70,000.

Also in the auction will be a model starship used in The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine.

Other non-Trek items of interest include a Star Wars stormtrooper helmet, Arnold Schwarzenegger‘s jacket from Terminator 3, a Lord of the Rings Witch King’s dagger, and a set of claws worn by Hugh Jackman in X2:X-Men United.

In all, four-hundred-and-fifty items will be auctioned.

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Pine To Star In Wonder Woman http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pine-to-star-in-wonder-woman/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pine-to-star-in-wonder-woman/#comments Wed, 29 Jul 2015 17:57:20 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41222 PineWonderWoman052815

Back in May, TrekToday reported that Chris Pine was in negotiations to star in Warner Bros. Wonder Woman; today comes word that Pine has signed on for the role.

Pine will be playing Steve Trevor, Diana Prince’s love interest.

In the Wonder Woman comics, Trevor “was an intelligence officer in the United States Army during World War II whose plane crashed on Paradise Island, the isolated homeland of the Amazons. He was nursed back to health by the Amazon princess Diana, who fell in love with him and followed him when he returned to the outside world. There she became Wonder Woman (and also his co-worker, Diana Prince).”

Pine’s deal reportedly includes sequel options.

Written by Jason Fuchs, Wonder Woman will be directed by Patty Jenkins. Pine will be starring with Gal Gadot, who will take on the role of Diana Prince.

Wonder Woman will be released June 23, 2017.

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Pegg Teases Elba Character http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pegg-teases-elba-character/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pegg-teases-elba-character/#comments Wed, 29 Jul 2015 17:54:46 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41218 Elba072915

Simon Pegg spoke briefly about the character that Idris Elba will be playing in Star Trek Beyond.

The character that Elba will be playing will be unique, Pegg promised.

“It’s a really interesting, complex character,” said Pegg. “We shouldn’t expect to see anything like Benedict Cumberbatch‘s creepy genius Khan from Star Trek Into Darkness in Elba’s performance, however. His performance is all his own.”

There’s a good reason that Elba’s villain is different than Cumberbatch’s. “Only because it would be a retread,” said Pegg. “What we don’t want to do is have the same kind of villain with the same motivation.”

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Old December 4 2012, 08:12 AM   #121
Gov Kodos
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

The Enterprise needed some kind of dog like alien to be a mild mannered shoe shine boy. That should surprise Q.
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Old December 4 2012, 01:29 PM   #122
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

Longinus wrote: View Post
Sindatur, you are just wrong. Sorry. Please think of the leprechauns; it should help to get this.
Agnostic: I have no evidence for the existence of leprechauns, but there's no evidence of their non-existence either.. Therefor I have no personal position on their existence, either in the positive, or in the negative. Perhaps more information will be discovered later.

Atheism
: I have no evidence for the existence of leprechauns, but there's no evidence of their non-existence either. Owing to the lack of evidence that I will accept, leprechauns don't exist, belief in them is wrong and should be actively discouraged, people who do believe in them should remain quiet.

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Old December 4 2012, 01:35 PM   #123
Longinus
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Longinus wrote: View Post
Sindatur, you are just wrong. Sorry. Please think of the leprechauns; it should help to get this.
You can make up definitions all day long, but, if someone doesn't put them in the Dictionary for you, it's unlikely they'll be widely accepted.

Atheism depends upon a certainty of a side to be taken (Either a Disbelief in the positive or a belief in the negative). Straight up, that's what the definition says.

Agnosticism is the one that allows you to softly take a side or refuse to take a side.
Lack of belief is disbelief. And atheism do not refuse to take side. It is certainly 'I do not think there is God'. We are talking about certainity of that conviction. People generally do not believe in all sorts of things there is no evidence for (or evidence is questionable.) Not believing in ghosts or leprechauns do not require indisputable evidence for the non-existence of said entities, merely lack of credible evidence for their existence. This is same with God. This relates to the difficulty of proving negative. I mean I cannot prove that there is not an invisible, intangible pink unicorn in my yard just now, but I have no reason to assume that there is.

Maybe Dawkins seven point scale will help to illuminate various positions:

Dawkins posits that "the existence of God is a scientific hypothesis like any other." He goes on to propose a continuous "spectrum of probabilities" between two extremes of opposite certainty, which can be represented by seven "milestones". Dawkins suggests definitive statements to summarize one's place along the spectrum of theistic probability. These "milestones" are:[2]
  1. Strong theist. 100 per cent probability of God. In the words of C.G. Jung: "I do not believe, I know."
  2. De facto theist. Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. "I don't know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there."
  3. Leaning towards theism. Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. "I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God."
  4. Completely impartial. Exactly 50 per cent. "God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable."
  5. Leaning towards atheism. Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. "I do not know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be skeptical."
  6. De facto atheist. Very low probability, but short of zero. "I don't know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there."
  7. Strong atheist. "I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung knows there is one."
Dawkins argues that while there appear to be plenty of individuals that would place themselves as "1" due to the strictness of religious doctrine against doubt, most atheists do not consider themselves "7" because atheism arises from a lack of evidence and evidence can always change a thinking person's mind. In print, Dawkins self-identified as a '6', though when interviewed by Bill Maher[3] and later by Anthony Kenny,[4] he suggested '6.9' to be more accurate.
You can apply that to other beliefs besides God. Ask your self how would you rate your belief in existece of ghosts, electrons, Australia or leprechauns on that scale.
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Old December 4 2012, 01:54 PM   #124
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

Merry Christmas wrote: View Post
Agnostic: I have no evidence for the existence of leprechauns, but there's no evidence of their non-existence either.. Therefor I have no personal position on their existence, either in the positive, or in the negative. Perhaps more information will be discovered later.

Atheism
: I have no evidence for the existence of leprechauns, but there's no evidence of their non-existence either. Owing to the lack of evidence that I will accept, leprechauns don't exist, belief in them is wrong and should be actively discouraged, people who do believe in them should remain quiet.
Thank you, that is actually pretty good summation. Except the last part on atheism. Taking moral position regarding the information is not required to qualify. Of course many atheists and theists still do. This is only natural. When people believe they have important information they want to share it. That's why I'm never annoyed by Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons that come knocking on my door, I think they are utterly wrong, but they have good intentions. In their worldview my immortal soul is in peril. (Atheist should totally go knocking on people's doors too! "Are you prepared? Jesus is not coming!" )

In any case, I'm pretty sure that most people are not agnostic about existence of leprechauns (more would be about, say, ghosts). It is not really "oh, could be either way, I'm really not sure" type of a deal. Most would just say that they do not exist, period, even though we cannot prove without a shadow of a doubt that they are not lurking there, being all magically invisible and stuff.
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Old December 4 2012, 05:17 PM   #125
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

commanderkai wrote: View Post
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Star Trek is pretty agnostic, or in some cases atheistic. The only person who is a strong believer is Worf and Klingons. There is no character in TNG through Voyager that you could point at and say he's such and such fait, except may be Chakotey, but it's unclear what his religion is.
Well, you have Kira, who was extremely religious, and Sisko did become more involved in the religious aspect of his role as Emissary.

I don't see how having some religious characters be some horrible thing to Star Trek. It didn't destroy Babylon 5. They don't need to beat you over the head with a Bible but it certainly would be a beneficial change to highlight the diversity of humanity.
Kira is not Starfleet and Bajor not part of Federation. They had only discovered a short time ago that the prophets are actually aliens that live in a wormhole. Give them time to adjust, old generations to die, and young ones to grow up, you'd see the difference.

Sisko never believed in them as prophets but aliens.

Picard believes that there is something out there, and McCoy, who usually uses phrases like "My God" and is considered to be religous by some fans, flat out states that according to myth, Earth was created in 6 days.

No one is stating that you won't have a spiritual person here and there, but Star Trek has always been about rationalism, and there is no need to have characters go to a chaplain on a regular basis. That would indicate a widespread belief abord the ship which is rediculous because none of them believe from what we know. Why would they go to chaplain? So they can pray to whom?
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Old December 4 2012, 06:06 PM   #126
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

^^^ It would make sense that a ship's counselor could serve in this particular role, as it would probably be expected of them to acquire a proficiency in comparative religious or spiritual studies of various cultures (including human) as a part of their curriculum to be certified as such. And the 1701 DID have a chapel (Balance of Terror) - the more spiritually-inclined crew members would be free to pray to whomever they liked in that facility. If they needed guidance or interpretation in their respective scriptures and/or doctrines, the counselor could theoretically be trained to assist in that process.

The resources are all there; they're probably just not as recognizable by our standards. Meta-speaking, we've never really seen it, as the stories have never really called for it, but in various episodes, Troi has always come up with some nugget of wisdom about some particular culture-of-the-week that assisted in solving a particular problem. Why couldn't xeno-spiritualism also be in her bag of tricks?
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Old December 4 2012, 11:10 PM   #127
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

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Sindatur, you are just wrong. Sorry. Please think of the leprechauns; it should help to get this.
You can make up definitions all day long, but, if someone doesn't put them in the Dictionary for you, it's unlikely they'll be widely accepted.

Atheism depends upon a certainty of a side to be taken (Either a Disbelief in the positive or a belief in the negative). Straight up, that's what the definition says.

Agnosticism is the one that allows you to softly take a side or refuse to take a side.
Lack of belief is disbelief. And atheism do not refuse to take side. It is certainly 'I do not think there is God'. We are talking about certainity of that conviction. People generally do not believe in all sorts of things there is no evidence for (or evidence is questionable.) Not believing in ghosts or leprechauns do not require indisputable evidence for the non-existence of said entities, merely lack of credible evidence for their existence. This is same with God. This relates to the difficulty of proving negative. I mean I cannot prove that there is not an invisible, intangible pink unicorn in my yard just now, but I have no reason to assume that there is.

Maybe Dawkins seven point scale will help to illuminate various positions:

Dawkins posits that "the existence of God is a scientific hypothesis like any other." He goes on to propose a continuous "spectrum of probabilities" between two extremes of opposite certainty, which can be represented by seven "milestones". Dawkins suggests definitive statements to summarize one's place along the spectrum of theistic probability. These "milestones" are:[2]
  1. Strong theist. 100 per cent probability of God. In the words of C.G. Jung: "I do not believe, I know."
  2. De facto theist. Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. "I don't know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there."
  3. Leaning towards theism. Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. "I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God."
  4. Completely impartial. Exactly 50 per cent. "God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable."
  5. Leaning towards atheism. Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. "I do not know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be skeptical."
  6. De facto atheist. Very low probability, but short of zero. "I don't know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there."
  7. Strong atheist. "I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung knows there is one."
Dawkins argues that while there appear to be plenty of individuals that would place themselves as "1" due to the strictness of religious doctrine against doubt, most atheists do not consider themselves "7" because atheism arises from a lack of evidence and evidence can always change a thinking person's mind. In print, Dawkins self-identified as a '6', though when interviewed by Bill Maher[3] and later by Anthony Kenny,[4] he suggested '6.9' to be more accurate.
You can apply that to other beliefs besides God. Ask your self how would you rate your belief in existece of ghosts, electrons, Australia or leprechauns on that scale.
No, lack of Belief and Disbelief are not the same thing.

Lack of belief means you do not actively believe it to be true, but, it does not dictate your position on the falseness of it.

Disbelief dictates your active belief that it is false
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Old December 4 2012, 11:38 PM   #128
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

So Sindatur, by this logic, how you feel about the leprechauns?

Also, do you realise that you're basically claiming that Richard Dawkins isn't an atheist?
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Old December 5 2012, 02:50 AM   #129
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

EmperorTiberius wrote: View Post
Kira is not Starfleet and Bajor not part of Federation.
But there are Bajorians in Starfleet, and we've seen them wearing the ear piece that is the emblem of their faith. Both Ensign Ro and one of the Enterprise's engineers in Insurrection. We know from Lieutenant Rahda and her bindi (TWS) that religious emblems can be worn on duty.

They had only discovered a short time ago that the prophets are actually aliens that live in a wormhole.
The Bajorians knew for tens of thousands of year that the Prophets lived in a temple, located in the passage, they just didn't know exactly where the passage was. Thanks to Sisko and Dax, now they do.

The Federation's disrespectful use of the term "wormhole aliens" doesn't effect that (when did they ever say "Vulcanoid aliens?). And the interact of people with the Prophets would affirm their faith. The destruction of the JemHadar fleet would affirm their faith.

Sisko never believed in them as prophets but aliens.
Sisko likely believes the Bajorian are aliens too. Admittedly the Bajorian use the word "Prophets" differently that we Humans do, but the indigenous name should be used. Picard never renamed a group simply because he did personally disliked their naming.

Again, Bajorian use the word "Prophets" differently that we do, but Sisko would have to be a fool not to acknowledge that the Prophet are supernatural beings, and that they interact with Bajorians and others. Existing at all points in time simultaneously, the Prophets definitely would met the definition of prophetic. From hundred of light years away, they orchestrated Sisko own conception. Apparently after they first met him.

Give them time to adjust, old generations to die, and young ones to grow up, you'd see the difference.
The first orb from the Prophets arrived thirty thousand years in Bajor's past. When is this "adjustment" going to occur?

... but Star Trek has always been about rationalism ...
No, often we have seen Star trek characters make decisions based upon emotions, intuition and personal experiences.

Why would they go to chaplain?
The confessional. Some prayers require the presence of a religious authority. Some types of prayers are lead. People would go to a Chaplain for religious ceremonies.

Some of these thing could not be done by a ship's counselor.

So they can pray to whom?
God, gods, the goddess, their ancestors, spirits. Or not praying, but engaging in devotional meditation. Or other worship. Or offerings.


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Old December 5 2012, 03:44 AM   #130
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

Merry Christmas wrote: View Post
Again, Bajorian use the word "Prophets" differently that we do, but Sisko would have to be a fool not to acknowledge that the Prophet are supernatural beings, and that they interact with Bajorians and others. Existing at all points in time simultaneously, the Prophets definitely would met the definition of prophetic. From hundred of light years away, they orchestrated Sisko own conception. Apparently after they first met him.
First, what do the wormole aliens call themselves? I agree that the Federation should use the name the aliens themselves prefer* but there is no need to use the name Bajorans prefer to call them. It's not like Feds call Romulans 'Green Blooded Traitor Dogs' even thought that would be the name Klingons might prefer them to be called.

* Granted, many alien names are probably just human names for them. Romulans probably do not call themselves Romulans.


Second, and more important point. From Federation perspective there is no such thing as 'supernatural'. This is actually the important thing I want to defend here; Star Trek should be about people who believe that everything can be (at least in theory) studied rationally. There can be things they do not yet understand, but that won't stop them from trying. Superior beings are advanced lifeworms, but they do not deserve any special reverence or worship. Q is in all intents and purposes a god, but there is no reason to worship him.

Putting some things on a pedestal and declaring them to be 'mystical' and 'beyond scientific understanding' is poison to the advanvement of a society. There were a lot of things humans in past believed to be work of gods and spirits. Luckily there were people who dared to suspect that maybe that was not actually case and decided to find out how things really work.
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Old December 5 2012, 01:17 PM   #131
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

Longinus wrote: View Post
From Federation perspective there is no such thing as 'supernatural'
Beings like the Prophets, Q, the Organians and some others are supernatural beings. Unless you are going to start redefining words.




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Old December 5 2012, 02:31 PM   #132
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

Merry Christmas wrote: View Post
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From Federation perspective there is no such thing as 'supernatural'
Beings like the Prophets, Q, the Organians and some others are supernatural beings. Unless you are going to start redefining words.
supernatural

1. of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.

2. of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or attributed to God or a deity.

3. of a superlative degree; preternatural: a missile of supernatural speed.

4. of, pertaining to, or attributed to ghosts, goblins, or other unearthly beings; eerie; occult.
Supernatural seems to indicate that things is in a fundamental way beyond scientific understanding (most clearly in meaning 1; 2 and 4 kind imply it too, 3 is a figure of speech.)

That is the thing I won't accept. Sure there are a lot of things we, or people in Star Trek won't yet understand, possibly things that will never be understood (because humans are too stupid and required scientific advances for understanding these things will never be reached), but there is not, and cannot be a category of things that is by its very nature beyond scientific inquiry and understanding.

Also, there is the moral side of things. People in Star Trek tend to believe that all sapient beings are equal, and that goes for 'gods' too. Federation people treat these superbeings as people, not as gods. They are incredibly powerful for sure, but that does not give them any special moral or spiritual meaning.
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Old December 5 2012, 07:50 PM   #133
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

Longinus wrote: View Post
So Sindatur, by this logic, how you feel about the leprechauns?

Also, do you realise that you're basically claiming that Richard Dawkins isn't an atheist?
Of course I believe in Leprechauns, doesn't any sane person? And evreyone knows Australia is a myth, have you seen the outrageous made up animals they claim to have

I can't help what Richard Dawkins calls himself or not, I didn't invent the Definitions, I don't have any involvement in making Dictionaries.
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Old December 5 2012, 08:06 PM   #134
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

You have are however involved in understanding them. If your reading makes about 95% self professed atheists, including the most well known spokesperson for atheism non-atheists, the chances are that you're wrong.

Most atheists do not believe in God the same way they dot believe in Leprechauns or Russel's Teapots.
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Old December 5 2012, 08:52 PM   #135
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

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You are only able to say that for yourself; you are incapable of knowing how prayer works for any who regularly perform it, so when you post "it does nothing," you need to add "...for me."
It can certainly affect your own mental state (or of those hearing the prayer), but it obviously cannot affect the external world. Praying for somene's safe return will not make them less or more likely to return safely.
Again, you are no position to post that, as you cannot disprove its external effects on an indivdual, a population or events past or present. You are better off limiting your opinion to one representing yourself.
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