ENTERPRISE on Blu-Ray OFFICIAL Discussion Thread

[Mr. Laser Beam]

tomswift2002 wrote:

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the signal gets so compressed that by the time it reaches your house, a 720p broadcast signal is no better than an upressed 480p DVD.

I've never seen an HD broadcast that looked that bad. I may not have cable, but I can still get some channels, including HD. And even the 720p broadcasts look pure HD.

[tomswift2002]

That's in theory. In practice stations tend to put a lot of compression on the signal and also load it down with lots of error correction.. Also, most stations audience comes from cable or satellite viewers, not OTA viewers. And with OTA, now that there are sub-channels stations are putting more information on one channel than before.

Just to give you an idea, for programming on digital Standard Definition 480i/p tapes at a station, you are looking at a bit rate of between 25 and 50 Mbps. Your average DVD is around 6 and 7 Mbps (for companies that cram video on, like Mill Creek, that's down 2 to 3 Mbps). Standard Def broadcast is usually, for OTA, around 5Mbps, while through cable/satellite you are looking at the 2 to 3 range.

Your average Blu-Ray plays back at around 25Mbps.

[Patrick O'Brien]

The price on Amazon is $77.86 as of now. Has anyone found the blurays listed for a better price on another site?

[ChristopherPike]

I'll be interested whether the show is in 1080p 24 frames per second, the original film speed no television station is capable of broadcasting, without converting it to approx 29 fps in NTSC. Or 720 & 1080 60hz for HD.

I'm aware CG can be very much hit and miss, compared to the actual real models we're seeing in TNG HD. Although you'd think the amount of time spent carving and painting a model, then many photographic passes through a computer, would just transfer to doing that the Lightwave equivalent at a computer screen. Time is still money, I suppose. Learning how to use a new tool and experimenting what looks real or incredibly fake. Expensive rendering of detail that wouldn't even have been seen by most of an audience in the 2000s.

Inanimate objects, metallic surfaces etc were always acceptable and indistinquishable from model work at times. The worst thing I seem to recall, were the little CG doubles of actors or human figures Enterprise did, which have really come along in recent years but fell short one or two occasions I can think of. Probably consistant with Final Fantasy-like living beings around that time and kept to a brief shot which adds scale.

[FrontierTrek]

We have a new article charting the differences between SD and HD Enterprise at TrekCore here: http://trekcore.com/blog/2013/02/ent...caps-analysis/

Plus - we'll have a special interview with one of the producers on the set, Roger Lay Jr, starting very soon. LOTS of cool information about the Enterprise Blu-Ray project in that! I'll post links when it goes up

[ChristopherPike]

^ Thanks for that. Definitely looks sharper with more contrast to me. That NX-01 shot from "Two Days and Two Nights" looks crisp in HD, whereas the same thing on DVD smears the hull with a green tint from the planet surface.

[ATimson]

ChristopherPike wrote:

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I'll be interested whether the show is in 1080p 24 frames per second, the original film speed no television station is capable of broadcasting, without converting it to approx 29 fps in NTSC. Or 720 & 1080 60hz for HD.

I don't think I've seen anything on Blu-ray that's only 720p. I have seen 1080i60, but that's been conversions of PAL material (Doctor Who and Torchwood); everything in my collection that has originated at 24 FPS has been 1080p24.

ChristopherPike wrote:

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I'm aware CG can be very much hit and miss, compared to the actual real models we're seeing in TNG HD. Although you'd think the amount of time spent carving and painting a model, then many photographic passes through a computer, would just transfer to doing that the Lightwave equivalent at a computer screen. Time is still money, I suppose.

The model work will require a similar amount of time - however, doing the actual "shooting" will be quicker in terms of user time. (You then have to wait for it to render, which may or may not be quicker depending on how complex your shot was! But that's a background task, not something the user has to stick around for.)

[RAMA]

STNG obviously looks better in the blurays, but wow who knew Enteeprise would be this improved as well! Some amazing detail that makes the CGI look better than ever.

[FrontierTrek]

Here is Part 1 of our special interview with Roger Lay, Jr. - one of the producers who worked on this set and produced the new bonus features:

http://trekcore.com/blog/2013/02/exc...erview-part-i/

In this part, Roger discusses attitudes to Enterprise, how to improve on the (already ample) bonus material from the DVDs and the special "In Conversation" piece between Rick Berman & Brannon Braga.

Lots more coming tomorrow where we'll discuss the 720p vs 1080p VFX debate, audio commentaries, cast reunions and music from the show.

[ChristopherPike]

^ That made for a great read. With they're never having been a behind-the-scenes book about the development of Enterprise, that 3-part doc and those 90 minutes "In Conversation" with Berman and Braga have a hell of a lot of ground to cover! Sounds amazing. Too many records to set straight and fan speculation that's taken as fact. I'm as much a sucker for accepting some of that, without questioning it or knowing who's responsible for what and why.

I imagine the pre-orders for Enterprise on Blu ray aren't as impressive as TNG. Part of that is the show's reputation (pointless pretending it isn't), but part is undoubtedly the perception this show is more or less just an off-the-shelf release of HD sourced episodes and not a whole lot less expensive for not getting an extensive makeover. I'm a Day One purchaser because I'm a huge fan of Enterprise and this cast, however part of a minority doing so I'm sure. Once Season 1 is out for a while and the price gets marked down, plus Star Trek In Darkness raising the profile - I'm sure CBS (& companies involved in these Blu ray extras) will find their no longer taking a hit pouring effort into a lost cause.

Thanks to all those involved in this project. Hard work that doesn't sound dull from documentary makers' perspective.

[ChristopherPike]

FrontierTrek wrote:

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Here is Part 1 of our special interview with Roger Lay, Jr. - one of the producers who worked on this set and produced the new bonus features:

http://trekcore.com/blog/2013/02/exc...erview-part-i/

Roger Lay, Jr wrote:

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I think all of those things hurt the show, and now we’re at a point where enough time has passed; those of us who are really hardcore fans of the Star Trek universe – you have the J.J. Abrams movies, to us, that’s not really ‘our’ Star Trek, that’s something very different – so I think that re-launching Enterprise now may satiate that need that hardcore fans have now to watch TV Trek, because I think Trek works best on television; your one-hour morality plays, what Gene really envisioned from the get-go. Now that there’s none of that in production, you have these movies that are big popcorn blockbusters that are not the Star Trek we fell in love with initially, I think fans will – hopefully – pick Enterprise up and see that there’s great value there, great stories there, a great intent… whether they were able to fulfill that or not, with the early cancellation and the issues they had; when it works, it works beautifully. You have episodes like "Dear Doctor", "Shuttlepod One", "Cogenitor", "Similitude" -- episodes that are just brilliant and do what star trek does best. In Season Four, I think – Season Four of Enterprise, for me, ranks up there with Seasons Five and Six of TNG, and Seasons Six and Seven of DS9 as one of the best seasons ever of any of the Trek shows. And Seasons One and Two of TOS. I really feel that Enterprise Season Four should be up there.

I think an Enterprise relaunch could potentially work. However I remember watching this series in order on broadcast too... the highs, the lows. It would hemorrhage viewers quickly. The audience would lose patience. In order to be successful, there would have to be changes. A very selective season-run of episodes. Like it or not, losing "Faith of the Heart" from the opening title sequence would make a difference. A brand new show, without the turn off theme tune. Not to me, I must stress. But certainly a sizable majority, given how common the complaint was...

heavy lids wrote:

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One thing I can't get over is how bad the song is in the opening credits. It's serious dog shit.

...and apparently still is.


Dipping back in my posting history, I'm reminded of this I once had to say...

ChristopherPike wrote:

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I'd like to see an experiment done where CBS rebrands Star Trek Enterprise, to discover how many viewers that can get on one of its main flagships channels. You know, in Prime-time or close to - at an hour unprecidented for a 10 year old property.

13 of the best episodes, mostly from Season 4 (I would expect) although a handful of earlier ones too. North Star has a "Cowboys and Aliens" vibe. Broken Bow still one of the best Star Trek pilots. Regeneration with the Borg in it is underrated.

Completely new opening title sequence, losing the middle of the road pop song - to give it a fighting chance. So even Simon Pegg wouldn't dare turn over.

Outlay to CBS? Basically nothing. How many people had HD back when it was on the air BUT do now?

There are enough stories in the last Star Trek series to assemble a line-up that doesn't outstay its welcome.

Now, that was a few years ago (2011) and you have to wonder if television is getting less and less relevant.

But 26 seasons a year is an outdated format. It would be cut down to 13 shows, building to a heavy story-arc driven climax in the final episode.

Enterprise would be cutdown to something like this...

ChristopherPike wrote:

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My attempt to redo Season 1 & 2 with 13 episodes per year.

Also I've moved stories around from one season to another to try to make it different. Plus include the standalones I didn't fit into my take on Seasons 3 & 4 above. I've tried to think about continuity, avoiding major contradictions. "Observer Effect" looking very different is the only major issue but I wanted to keep that somewhere. "Singularity" is a fantastic re-introduction and there's nothing better than have the characters get on each other's nerves and exaggerate their failings for that.

0. Broken Bow

1. Singularity
2. Fight or Flight
3. Civilization
4. The Andorian Incident
5. Breaking the Ice
6. Fortunate Son
7. First Flight
8. Silent Enemy
9. Shuttlepod One
10. Fusion
11. Dear Doctor
12. Shadows of P'Jem
13. Cold Front

0. Shockwave Part I & II

1. Regeneration
2. Minefield
3. Dead Stop
4. Carbon Creek
5. Fallen Hero
6. Detained
7. Stigma
8. Cease Fire
9. North Star
10. Observer Effect
11. Judgment
12. Future Tense
13. The Expanse

[RAMA]

I don't really have a problem with the ENT theme, my wife loves it. That's good enough for me.

RAMA

[ChristopherPike]

RAMA wrote:

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I don't really have a problem with the ENT theme, my wife loves it. That's good enough for me.

3 down.

5,999,997 members of the audience to go.

I don't dislike the theme, but even if I did, that wouldn't make me any less of an Enterprise fan. If had a dollar for everytime I heard somebody knock the theme tune... Yeah, well, I still wouldn't have been rich enough to make Season 5.

[StewMc]

BillJ wrote:

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I always thought the effects were done at 480p due to the render times?

I'm positive that at least a few shots over the years were done at 480p to save time, I recall someone on the show (Doug Drexler maybe?) mentioned this at the time and it was even discussed on this very BBS at one point. Unfortunately I can't find any reference to it now, I had started to think I imagined it but possibly not now.

EDIT: Found something, an article from early 2005 where Ronald B. Moore mentions that some shots were rendered in SD and then up-rezzed for time. There's also this thread on another forum where someone mentions it, and also this post on TrekBBS with some quotes from the above article and others, including one that implies that all VFX compositing was done in SD at one point.

Perhaps that's why some of the VFX shots look poor at 1080p?

[ChristopherPike]

All this would make for an interesting part of a documentary...

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=30235

...by the time, they reach Season 4. I'm guessing nothing about Al Vinci's involvement in the Save Enterprise campaign, back in early 2005, can be substantiated.

I remember $3 million dollars being pledged by an anonymous person, thought to be involving in the spaceflight industry. It would be nice if something of that did come out at some stage. Whether 10 years on or longer.