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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old October 3 2012, 12:21 PM   #16
Captain McBain
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Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q

Riker's decision to reject Q's offer was certainly highly questionable, at least in my opinion.
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Old October 3 2012, 05:55 PM   #17
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Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q

I liked this episode, but the scenes with Picard and Q together on the Enterprise are some of the best scenes in Season 1. Both of them quoting Shakespeare back and forth was really a highlight, especially with Picard culminating it by quoting Hamlet.
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Old October 3 2012, 07:46 PM   #18
Jeyl
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Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q

tomalak301 wrote: View Post
I liked this episode, but the scenes with Picard and Q together on the Enterprise are some of the best scenes in Season 1. Both of them quoting Shakespeare back and forth was really a highlight, especially with Picard culminating it by quoting Hamlet.
You do realize that Picard is quoting Hamlet out of context, right? The line comparing man to angels and gods is meant to be taken as sarcasm, but Picard actually believes that this is what humanity will rise to one day. Yet when it kind of does when Riker gets the godlike powers, it's the worst thing that could ever happen. I do believe Picard is lacking in consistent views.

The only Shakespeare line said in this episode that tells us everything that needs to be said is the line "A tale told by an idiot". That's exactly what this episode is.
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Old October 3 2012, 08:52 PM   #19
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Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q

All you have to do is take a look at people who suddenly get rich to understand Picard' point of view. Man will grow and change and so will his understanding of the universe. He will have the experience to use the power with wisdom.

Look at Riker, already thinking he knows what people want. How long before he would've began to enforce it on them? All you have to do is look to Gary Mitchell and Charlie Evans to understand the point that Roddenberry was trying to get across.

Where No Man... wrote:
KIRK: You were a psychiatrist once. You know the ugly, savage things we all keep buried, that none of us dare expose. But he'll dare. Who's to stop him? He doesn't need to care. Be a psychiatrist for one minute longer. What do you see happening to him? What's your prognosis, Doctor?
Hide and Q wrote:
PICARD: And have you noticed how you and I are now on a first name basis?
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Old October 3 2012, 08:55 PM   #20
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Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q

"Hide and Q" is passable, but the moral dilemma is ineptly handled, and it's plainly evident that John De Lancie has much more chemistry with Patrick Stewart than he does with Jonathan Frakes.

The original series already explored this premise more than once, anyways ("Where No Man Has Gone Before" and "Charlie X"), and with much sharper writing in both those cases.
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Old October 3 2012, 09:20 PM   #21
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Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q

Harvey wrote: View Post
"Hide and Q" is passable, but the moral dilemma is ineptly handled, and it's plainly evident that John De Lancie has much more chemistry with Patrick Stewart than he does with Jonathan Frakes.

The original series already explored this premise more than once, anyways ("Where No Man Has Gone Before" and "Charlie X"), and with much sharper writing in both those cases.
Ineptly handled is too much praise for just how banally Riker's God powers were handled. And yes, one of the problems was that the episode was struggling just to be better than Plato's Stepchildren, while not even in the ballpark with the other TOS episodes you mentioned. Yet another TNG 1st-seasoner that gave me white knuckles, making me worry that the show wouldn't survive to see a second season.
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Old October 3 2012, 09:29 PM   #22
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Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q

Conscious Circuits wrote: View Post
Harvey wrote: View Post
"Hide and Q" is passable, but the moral dilemma is ineptly handled, and it's plainly evident that John De Lancie has much more chemistry with Patrick Stewart than he does with Jonathan Frakes.

The original series already explored this premise more than once, anyways ("Where No Man Has Gone Before" and "Charlie X"), and with much sharper writing in both those cases.
Ineptly handled is too much praise for just how banally Riker's God powers were handled. And yes, one of the problems was that the episode was struggling just to be better than Plato's Stepchildren, while not even in the ballpark with the other TOS episodes you mentioned. Yet another TNG 1st-seasoner that gave me white knuckles, making me worry that the show wouldn't survive to see a second season.
Pretty sure the show had already been renewed by the time this one aired.
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Old October 3 2012, 09:37 PM   #23
sonak
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Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q

Totally absurd episode. No way a Human being gives up the powers of a God. No way.
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Old October 3 2012, 09:41 PM   #24
davejames
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Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
You do realize that Picard is quoting Hamlet out of context, right? The line comparing man to angels and gods is meant to be taken as sarcasm, but Picard actually believes that this is what humanity will rise to one day. Yet when it kind of does when Riker gets the godlike powers, it's the worst thing that could ever happen. I do believe Picard is lacking in consistent views.
Um, Picard actually does acknowledge that in the episode: "What he says with irony, I say with conviction..."

And I don't know why it's so shocking or repugnant to hear him talk about how special and noble humanity is, or to suggest we may one day evolve to become something better. That's kind of the central message of the series!

Nor was he suggesting we would become literal gods and angels-- only that we would become like them in spirit (although they've encountered enough energy beings over the years who HAVE evolved from humbler forms, so it's not exactly a new concept to anyone in this time).

And I don't see any inconsistency with his reaction to Riker either. His concern was that Riker (and by extension humanity) wasn't yet ready for such powers.
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Old October 3 2012, 10:47 PM   #25
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Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q

BillJ wrote: View Post
Conscious Circuits wrote: View Post
Harvey wrote: View Post
"Hide and Q" is passable, but the moral dilemma is ineptly handled, and it's plainly evident that John De Lancie has much more chemistry with Patrick Stewart than he does with Jonathan Frakes.

The original series already explored this premise more than once, anyways ("Where No Man Has Gone Before" and "Charlie X"), and with much sharper writing in both those cases.
Ineptly handled is too much praise for just how banally Riker's God powers were handled. And yes, one of the problems was that the episode was struggling just to be better than Plato's Stepchildren, while not even in the ballpark with the other TOS episodes you mentioned. Yet another TNG 1st-seasoner that gave me white knuckles, making me worry that the show wouldn't survive to see a second season.
Pretty sure the show had already been renewed by the time this one aired.
I'm sure I didn't know that at the time during first run.
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Old October 4 2012, 03:41 AM   #26
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Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q

inflatabledalek wrote: View Post
It's certainly not the worst Q episodes
Close to it, assuming we’re limiting the discussion to TNG. I’d put H&Q ahead of Qpid and roughly on a par True Q, behind Encounter at Farpoint, way behind Deja Q, and way, way, way, way the fuck behind Q Who?, Tapestry, and All Good Things....

The moral dilema with the child just doesn't work, because it never feels like a situation where using the power would be wrong.

If it had been someone who'd been dead for days, or thousands of people, the issue would be a lot muddier and it'd be easier for Picard to make his point about that being too much power.
Where would you draw the line?

But saving one person who has just died... that's something almost everyday for this crew. The ending of Code of Honor depended on it and Crusher will try her best to do it with Yar at the end of the season without Picard stepping forward and telling her off for her troubles.
Perhaps more to the point, Riker used the Q power to resurrect Worf and Wesley earlier in the episode. Picard says that situation was different because Worf and Wesley were put in a dangerous situation by the same entity trying to tempt Riker. It strikes me as a weak rationalization.

Jeyl wrote: View Post
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Jeyl wrote: View Post
Gene was no "perfect" being
Oh crap, now we're going to have Trekkies protesting at American embassies.

There is no TV but Star Trek and Roddenberry gets the Profit. If ye are in doubt, produce a franchise like it.
This isn't about earning a profit form something you created, this is about ripping off actual talent who are just trying to make an honest living. Creating a franchise and ripping someone off are two different things.
Whoosh. I was making a joke related to current events. Perhaps it isn’t very funny, and it certainly isn’t funny if I have to explain it, so don’t worry about it.

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
Riker's decision to reject Q's offer was certainly highly questionable, at least in my opinion.
It’s a decision meriting more substantive debate than we get in the episode.

The good guys lose if Riker joins the Q and the good guys win if Riker rejects the offer, but why? What’s at stake? The Q want Riker to join them so they can better understand humanity. If that happens, why would it be a bad thing? Might it not even be a good thing for humanity?

The only clear stakes are Picard’s pointless wager with Q (Picard’s command vs. Q staying out of humanity’s way). Why do we even need Q out of humanity’s way? He put the Enterprise on trial for the crimes of humanity... and acquitted them. He interfered with the Enterprise on their way to a rescue mission... and manipulated time so they were not delayed. He’s never the cause of anything really bad except for the 18 people who die in Q Who?, and Picard recognizes that tragedy as a “kick in the complacency” that may be what the Federation needed.

Harvey wrote: View Post
it's plainly evident that John De Lancie has much more chemistry with Patrick Stewart than he does with Jonathan Frakes.
I blame Frakes, who is not a good actor in early TNG. (He gets better as the series progresses.) His performance in this episode is particularly bad, which is unfortunate because it’s Riker’s biggest role so far. I reserve most of my acting complaints for Crosby, who’s ten times worse, but Frakes’s performance here is lousy.
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Old October 4 2012, 03:53 AM   #27
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Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q

This episode really seemed to be all over the place with no real purpose to it. Q's screwing around with the crew for a bit. Yar's just acting silly. Riker suddenly gets tempted with godlike powers before everyone rejecting his gifts for no real reason.

Wesley gets impaled though. This is always good.
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Old October 4 2012, 04:49 AM   #28
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Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q

Zombie Redshirt wrote: View Post
everyone rejecting his gifts for no real reason.
Let’s see.

It’s a theme in early TNG, especially The Naked Now, that Geordi wants to have “normal” vision instead of VISOR vision. With his VISOR he can see more than we can see with normal vision, but says “More is not better.” Is less better? Why? I never understood what motivated this, and as far as I can recall the subject was dropped after H&Q (until Insurrection, whose existence I don’t like having to acknowledge). Maybe now that he’s seen what all the fuss is about, he decides normal vision is not so much better than VISOR vision, and “the price is a little too high,” which I take as a reference to the visual abilities he would lose going from the VISOR to normal eyes. I’m not sure what he meant by “I don’t like who I’d have to thank.” Did he mean Q, or Riker?

Data is tougher to explain. In the pilot, he explicitly tells Riker he would “gladly” give up all his android abilities to be human. Here he is offered exactly that and declines. I have always considered it a weakness of TNG that it doesn’t really address the question of why Data thinks that being like us would be so much better than being like him. It’s not surprising that I don’t understand why he refuses the gift, because I don’t understand why he wants it in the first place.

Wesley seems happy with his gift at first. Then he sees the adults (okay, an adult, an android, and an alien) decline their gifts and he does the same, so maybe he just figures it’s the right thing to do because they did, or maybe he was persuaded by Data’s “to thine own self be true” speech.
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Old October 4 2012, 09:16 AM   #29
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Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q

Jeyl wrote: View Post
tomalak301 wrote: View Post
I liked this episode, but the scenes with Picard and Q together on the Enterprise are some of the best scenes in Season 1. Both of them quoting Shakespeare back and forth was really a highlight, especially with Picard culminating it by quoting Hamlet.
You do realize that Picard is quoting Hamlet out of context, right? The line comparing man to angels and gods is meant to be taken as sarcasm, but Picard actually believes that this is what humanity will rise to one day. Yet when it kind of does when Riker gets the godlike powers, it's the worst thing that could ever happen. I do believe Picard is lacking in consistent views.

The only Shakespeare line said in this episode that tells us everything that needs to be said is the line "A tale told by an idiot". That's exactly what this episode is.
Davejames addressed this better than I could, but why can't I like two great actors going at it quoting Shakespeare. Told out of context or not, it was still an awesome scene.
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Old October 4 2012, 12:43 PM   #30
Jeyl
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Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q

davejames wrote: View Post
And I don't know why it's so shocking or repugnant to hear him talk about how special and noble humanity is, or to suggest we may one day evolve to become something better. That's kind of the central message of the series!
Because a few minutes later, the same man praises one of his officers for not saving a child. It's kind of difficult to believe someone who declares that humanity will one day become like angels and gods, yet finds the death of children perfectly acceptable without so much as showing any sign of remorse.

And if this episode really wanted to go to the extreme in Riker using his powers to help others, he should have brought the child back to life with her parents there. Do you think that the parents of this recently deceased child are going to reject having their daughter back because they don't want to risk Riker, a person who they don't even know, from being corrupted by this power? I think something different would happen.
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