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Old September 28 2012, 10:55 AM   #1
Admiral_Sisko
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Would the DTI Try to Recruit Spock?

As we've seen on numerous occasions throughout Star Trek, Spock appears to have an understanding of temporal mechanics that is superior to most of his colleagues. It was Spock who implemented the "slingshot" maneuver used in "Tomorrow is Yesterday," "Assignment: Earth," and The Voyager Home. It was also Spock who correctly deduced that the Guardian of Forever could be used for time travel, as well as determining that time's currents would likely sweep McCoy to the same time and place that he and Kirk had been drawn to in "The City on the Edge of Forever."

We've seen autonomous departments within the Federation recruit experienced officers before, such as when Section 31 added Dr. Bashir to their ranks, albeit against his wishes. The following question must therefore be asked: would the DTI have any interest in recruiting Spock? Or, perhaps a better question might be, has Spock already worked for them, thus explaining his proficiency in temporal mechanics in the first place?

Section 31 prides itself on covering its tracks, but the DTI can completely erase their tracks from existence if they so desire. Who's to say that Spock hasn't undertaken missions for the DTI? What might the consequences of those missions have been?
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Old September 28 2012, 01:14 PM   #2
Markonian
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Re: Would the DTI Try to Recruit Spock?

Spock has indeed worked for/with the DTI, see Forgotten History for reference. He participated in time travel missions (e.g. involving the Guardian) and even travelled to a parallel universe were Humans died out in the 1950ss and the Andorians and the Klingons... well, read for yourself.
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Old September 28 2012, 03:10 PM   #3
Christopher
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Re: Would the DTI Try to Recruit Spock?

Admiral_Sisko wrote: View Post
We've seen autonomous departments within the Federation recruit experienced officers before, such as when Section 31 added Dr. Bashir to their ranks, albeit against his wishes. The following question must therefore be asked: would the DTI have any interest in recruiting Spock? Or, perhaps a better question might be, has Spock already worked for them, thus explaining his proficiency in temporal mechanics in the first place?
Well, Section 31 isn't really a "department," it's more of a secret cabal within Starfleet. And that's the key -- its members are Starfleet personnel. The DTI is a branch of the civilian government of the Federation. If you look at the United States FBI or ATF or DEA, you'll find that its personnel are civilians, not officers of the armed forces. Some of them may well be former military personnel who've returned to civilian life, of course, but they are civilians.

Certainly the DTI has worked in cooperation with Starfleet personnel on various occasions, since Starfleet is the branch of the Federation that most often gets involved with temporal phenomena (which is why Spock has so much experience with same). But they're separate institutions. Starfleet officers often work with DTI agents, but military personnel do not work for civilian agencies.

I'm sure the DTI would've been glad to have Spock onboard as a consultant or investigator if he'd ever chosen to retire from Starfleet, but the only time he ever did that was when he returned to Vulcan to pursue Kolinahr. So if they made the invitation, as they most likely did, he clearly never accepted.


Section 31 prides itself on covering its tracks, but the DTI can completely erase their tracks from existence if they so desire.
No, they cannot. At least, they would not desire to. That's misunderstanding their purpose and resources. The DTI investigates time travel and attempts to limit it, contain it, and deal with, or at least identify, its consequences. It doesn't actually engage in time travel except in the direst emergencies.
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Old September 28 2012, 10:13 PM   #4
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Would the DTI Try to Recruit Spock?

Am I correct in assuming that the prime universe DTI has no way of knowing of the existence of the Abramstimeline or the time travel that created it?

The Abramsverse DTI, on the other hand....
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Old September 28 2012, 10:26 PM   #5
hbquikcomjamesl
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Re: Would the DTI Try to Recruit Spock?

Maybe the prime Dulmur and Lucsly don't know about it, but what about Daniels? Within about 24 hours of seeing the latest ST film, I had already imagined a scenario in which Daniels pulls Spock aside (the way he frequently pulled Archer aside), informs him that the hypernova that will had (time travel plays havoc with tenses!) destroyed Romulus will had been the first shot in a 24th century front of the Temporal Cold War, and asks him to undertake a mission to essentially wipe the Abramsverse out of existence and reinstate the Prime Universe.
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Old September 29 2012, 01:55 AM   #6
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Re: Would the DTI Try to Recruit Spock?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Am I correct in assuming that the prime universe DTI has no way of knowing of the existence of the Abramstimeline or the time travel that created it?
That's correct. As far as they know, Spock and Nero just fell into a black hole and were crushed.


The Abramsverse DTI, on the other hand....
...doesn't exist, at least not yet. The Primeverse DTI was founded in 2270 in response to Kirk's time-travel experiences in TOS. The "current" timeframe of the Abramsverse is 2258 and Kirk has just gotten his command.


hbquikcomjamesl wrote: View Post
Maybe the prime Dulmur and Lucsly don't know about it, but what about Daniels? Within about 24 hours of seeing the latest ST film, I had already imagined a scenario in which Daniels pulls Spock aside (the way he frequently pulled Archer aside), informs him that the hypernova that will had (time travel plays havoc with tenses!) destroyed Romulus will had been the first shot in a 24th century front of the Temporal Cold War, and asks him to undertake a mission to essentially wipe the Abramsverse out of existence and reinstate the Prime Universe.
Nothing happened to the Prime Universe. It's still there, coexisting with the Abramsverse. So there's no reason the Abramsverse can't continue to exist. The reason Spock Prime wasn't already trying to fix the timeline in the movie is because he knew there was nothing to fix, nothing to change -- that the Abramsverse hadn't replaced or erased his own history, simply branched off from it.

Besides, what I said above still applies -- we don't know if Daniels's agency would even have any awareness of that other timeline's creation. There are so many different timelines that it's probably hard to keep track of them all even with 31st-century technology. And as long as a timeline doesn't pose a threat to the existence of a different one, there's no reason to get involved.

Also, I really doubt that Daniels himself personally deals with every time-travel issue arising across all of time and space. He's just one person, after all. And he made it pretty clear in "Shockwave" that he's not the top of the totem pole, just a team member following orders from higher up. Just because he's the only guy we've seen doesn't mean he's the only guy there is. That's part of why I created Jena Noi, a different member of the same agency, in Watching the Clock. I figured that Daniels was assigned specifically to the mid-22nd century in this vicinity of the galaxy, while other agents would be assigned to other timeframes and regions.
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Old September 29 2012, 10:32 AM   #7
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Re: Would the DTI Try to Recruit Spock?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Am I correct in assuming that the prime universe DTI has no way of knowing of the existence of the Abramstimeline or the time travel that created it?

The Abramsverse DTI, on the other hand....
I might be misremembering but in the tie-in book for the video game, one of the DTI agents from the show goes mad because he has memories from all three time-lines (books, video game, film).
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Old September 29 2012, 10:34 AM   #8
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Would the DTI Try to Recruit Spock?


"...and that's the one with all the lens flares."
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Old September 29 2012, 04:54 PM   #9
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Re: Would the DTI Try to Recruit Spock?



Archer: Don't even think about it.

Daniels: I'm sorry, Jonathan, I can't help myself.

Archer: One more word and I sic Porthos on you...

Daniels (clears throat): Let's do the time warp again!!!

Archer: Grrrr.
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Old September 29 2012, 05:44 PM   #10
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Re: Would the DTI Try to Recruit Spock?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
...and that's the one with all the lens flares."
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Old September 29 2012, 10:31 PM   #11
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Re: Would the DTI Try to Recruit Spock?

Nice. I don't know which one of those is funnier.
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Old September 30 2012, 03:59 AM   #12
vegaslover62
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Re: Would the DTI Try to Recruit Spock?

My opinion is, since the DTI holds Kirk in such low regard because he's their worst offender, wouldn't they dislike Spock just as much because he was always by Kirk's side during those offenses?
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Old September 30 2012, 06:18 AM   #13
Admiral_Sisko
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Re: Would the DTI Try to Recruit Spock?

vegaslover62 wrote: View Post
My opinion is, since the DTI holds Kirk in such low regard because he's their worst offender, wouldn't they dislike Spock just as much because he was always by Kirk's side during those offenses?
Not necessarily. Kirk was disliked by the DTI because of what they perceived to be his consistent disregard for temporal regulations, as well as his reckless approach to time travel (going out of his way to interact with people from 1986 in order to steal two whales).

Spock aided Kirk in his endeavors, but he always seemed to have a much greater awareness of how to approach time travel, something that the DTI would appreciate. Their branch of the Federation exists to prevent tampering with the timeline. It stands to reason that they would need people who understood temporal mechanics in order to carry out this objective.
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Old October 4 2012, 02:41 AM   #14
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Re: Would the DTI Try to Recruit Spock?

Come on. Gariff Lucsly is capable of extremely disliking Kirk for his "crimes." Based on that, I'll bet "guilt by association" still exists in the 24th Century and therefore the 23rd.
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Old October 4 2012, 04:15 AM   #15
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Would the DTI Try to Recruit Spock?

Now that Lucsly has seen what he's seen firsthand, he probably doesn't "really" think Kirk is so evil, just uses that as an excuse to justify his own ego. Lucsly needs somebody to look down on, and Kirk's it.

As for Spock: There's no one to recruit.
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