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Old October 7 2012, 02:12 AM   #16
Sindatur
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Re: Babylon 5 S2

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
I think the first half of Season 5 is rough, but the second half...heartbreaking... a must watch.
Agreed, S5 starts out from ground zero again because of the threat of cancellation, but, the second half is as good as any other period in the show, IMHO
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Old October 7 2012, 02:22 AM   #17
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Re: Babylon 5 S2

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
I think the first half of Season 5 is rough, but the second half...heartbreaking... a must watch.
Agreed, S5 starts out from ground zero again because of the threat of cancellation, but, the second half is as good as any other period in the show, IMHO
Yeah, I think having to reshuffle who was at the center of the arc and the casting of a particular character, the first half suffers.
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Old October 7 2012, 03:02 AM   #18
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Re: Babylon 5 S2

As I've said elsewhere, I think it's quite feasible to start with S2 and only go back if and when you're inclined to.

Yeah, you miss out on some of the building blocks, but nothing crucial.

As it is there are still episodes of S1 I haven't seen because my understanding is that they're total dogs, and I'm not interested in watching an episode that's 5% building blocks if it's 95% horrible.
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Old October 7 2012, 04:28 AM   #19
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Re: Babylon 5 S2

DonIago wrote: View Post
As it is there are still episodes of S1 I haven't seen because my understanding is that they're total dogs, and I'm not interested in watching an episode that's 5% building blocks if it's 95% horrible.
Wow...you let others make that determination for you?

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Old October 7 2012, 08:29 AM   #20
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Re: Babylon 5 S2

Surely you've read reviews of things before deciding whether or not to see them for yourself.

Last I checked, nobody's going to claim that "TKO" is a must-see episode.

Hell, "Grey 17 is Missing" is in what's generally considered the best season of B5, and I think even most B5 fans would agree that it's not exactly B5 at its best. Even JMS doesn't defend that one.
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Old October 7 2012, 02:05 PM   #21
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Re: Babylon 5 S2

DonIago wrote: View Post
Surely you've read reviews of things before deciding whether or not to see them for yourself.

Last I checked, nobody's going to claim that "TKO" is a must-see episode.

Hell, "Grey 17 is Missing" is in what's generally considered the best season of B5, and I think even most B5 fans would agree that it's not exactly B5 at its best. Even JMS doesn't defend that one.
Actually, TKO and Grey 17 both have fantastic B Stories, and are very important to character development. The Ultimate Fighting part of TKO isn't anything special (other than the foreshadowing comment from Walker), and yea, the Grey 17 part of Grey 17 isn't anything special either, but, I sure wouldn't want to miss the B Stories, especially the B Story to Grey 17 which plays a crucial part in late S4
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Old October 7 2012, 02:52 PM   #22
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Re: Babylon 5 S2

DonIago wrote: View Post
As I've said elsewhere, I think it's quite feasible to start with S2 and only go back if and when you're inclined to.

Yeah, you miss out on some of the building blocks, but nothing crucial.

As it is there are still episodes of S1 I haven't seen because my understanding is that they're total dogs, and I'm not interested in watching an episode that's 5% building blocks if it's 95% horrible.
check out the B5 wiki to fill the gaps.

http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/Grey_Sector
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Old October 7 2012, 07:48 PM   #23
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Re: Babylon 5 S2

I think the point remains that S1 -can- be missed without seriously impacting one's ability to understand later events in the series, though it could be more enjoyable to watch it first. Or one can swing around and watch it later.

Unfortunately there's no way someone can objectively answer the question of whether they would have rather watched S1 first. I just remember the brief exposures I had to S1 episodes before becoming a fan of the series (and maybe they were bad exposures, I honestly couldn't say) failed to elicit my interest beyond "this looks alarmingly low-budget, and the commander's performance is...an interesting choice, but not a choice that interests me". My understanding is that I'm not by any means alone in my opinion.

I remember the B-plot of "Grey 17", or think I do, but I don't recall it having a "crucial" impact on later events. I'm sure I've read the synopsis of "TKO", but I don't remember the discussion of the B-plot well enough to comment.
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Old October 7 2012, 08:26 PM   #24
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Re: Babylon 5 S2

DonIago, see the IM I sent you on Grey 17

TKO doesn't have a major impact on the arc like that, but, it does tell us alot about a character
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Old October 7 2012, 11:08 PM   #25
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Re: Babylon 5 S2

Based on the PM I think we may have different ideas of what constitutes crucial plot points and such. No harm, no foul.
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Old October 8 2012, 03:35 AM   #26
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Re: Babylon 5 S2

Season 1 does have it gems, and I would recommend to most folks to watch at least 10 selected episodes of season 1. I know for a fact if I was given the option of watching season 1 of TNG, Season 1 of Voyager, or season 1 of B5, I would Pick b5 as while the bad episodes are very bad, the top ten episodes of Season 1 of Babylon 5 are of good quality.

For example

Season 1 of TNG
1 Very good episode ("Conspiracy")
5 episodes that are ok ("The Last Outpost", "The Battle", "The Battle", "Home Soil", and "Symbiosis")

The rest of the episodes are bad.

Season 1 of Voyager

you have five ok episodes IMO (though to be fair, it had only a 16 episode season, and it been a while since I watched any voyager)

(Caretaker. "Phage", "Eye of the Needle", "Ex Post Facto", "Heroes and Demons")

Babylon 5 has in season 1

2 - excellent episodes ("And the Sky Full of Stars" and "Signs and Portents")
4 - very good epsiodes ("Mind War", "A Voice in the Wilderness", "Babylon Squared", "Chrysalis")
4 - ok episodes ("Midnight on the Firing Line", "Deathwalker", "Believers", "The Quality of Mercy")

DS9 had

1 - Amazing/epic episode ("Duet")
3 excellent episodes ("Emissary", "Captive Pursuit", "In the Hands of the Prophets")
3 ok episodes - "Past Prologue", "Progress", and "The Nagus")

Of course, the worse of Babylon 5 is so bad that it drags down the core of decent episodes down with it. I would say DS9 had the best first season out of the 4, if only due to the fact that Duet is one of the best Science fiction hours in TV.
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Old October 8 2012, 03:47 AM   #27
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Re: Babylon 5 S2

I think you're being rather harsh on S1 of TNG there. While it's by no means a classic, I think most folks think the episode with the Bynars is pretty good at least, but you don't even list it there.

Also, if "Believers" is the episode I think it is, I'd consider it a bad episode.

Eh...I don't know why I'm getting this invested in it...it's just tv, and everyone's perspective is going to be different anyway. One person's "crucial" is another's "I understood what was going on just fine without that"; one person's good is another's bad, etc.

I think I've spoken my peace.
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Old October 8 2012, 04:07 AM   #28
Distorted Humor
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Re: Babylon 5 S2

DonIago wrote: View Post
I think you're being rather harsh on S1 of TNG there. While it's by no means a classic, I think most folks think the episode with the Bynars is pretty good at least, but you don't even list it there.

Also, if "Believers" is the episode I think it is, I'd consider it a bad episode.

I do not think "11001001" is that good of a episode, I wasn't aware it had that many fans, but its been about 3 years since I seen that episode, and perhaps I would be less harsh with it, and perhaps I should be kinder, but the next highest episode i left out was "Arsenal of freedom"

As for "Believers" you already said you thought it was "Just like a TNG episode" - now mind you, most TNG episodes are not bad after the first two seasons, and out of the five people I know personally who have watched that episode, 4 of them where shocked by the ending, and the other one was like "Wouldn't it be awesome if they did X" with the X being the ending of the episode. If a episode can have a impact almost 20 years after it was made, I would call it a good episode.

But I am not angry or anything that you disagree - those ratings are totally my own, and I would be curious if you what episodes you would think where good and so on. For example, I think most would agree "Signs and Portents" is a good episode, but I am shocked no one is bashing my addition of "Deathwalker" as i know some think it a bad episode.

Feel free to make a counter point, heck, I most likely will watch a first season TNG episode to see if I will raise it up to a "good" episode or not.
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Old October 8 2012, 05:10 AM   #29
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Re: Babylon 5 S2

If you'd care to list off the S1 episodes of TNG and B5 (and I'd certainly understand if you didn't) I'd be happy to list off the ones I find worthwhile.

Love "Signs and Portents", not least because it introduces my favorite character of the series. Not really a fan of "Deathwalker", but I don't think it sucks either...I do like how it ends.

I think Franklin should have lost his license for his behavior in "Believers", though. Or at least received a formal reprimand. I'm not aware of any repercussions though.

I should qualify that any opinions I provide are based off long-term memory. I quite simply can't recall the last time I watched any S1 B5 or TNG.
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Old October 8 2012, 02:02 PM   #30
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Re: Babylon 5 S2

DonIago wrote: View Post
If you'd care to list off the S1 episodes of TNG and B5 (and I'd certainly understand if you didn't) I'd be happy to list off the ones I find worthwhile.

Love "Signs and Portents", not least because it introduces my favorite character of the series. Not really a fan of "Deathwalker", but I don't think it sucks either...I do like how it ends.

I think Franklin should have lost his license for his behavior in "Believers", though. Or at least received a formal reprimand. I'm not aware of any repercussions though.

I should qualify that any opinions I provide are based off long-term memory. I quite simply can't recall the last time I watched any S1 B5 or TNG.
TNG

"Encounter at Farpoint"
"The Naked Now"
"Code of Honor"
"The Last Outpost"
"Where No One Has Gone Before"
"Lonely Among Us"
"Justice"
"The Battle"
"Hide and Q"
"Haven"
"The Big Goodbye"
"Datalore"
"Angel One"
"11001001"
"Too Short a Season"
"When the Bough Breaks"
"Home Soil"
"Coming of Age"
"Heart of Glory"
"The Arsenal of Freedom"
"Symbiosis"
"Skin of Evil"
"Conspiracy"
"The Neutral Zone"

Babylon 5

"Midnight on the Firing Line"
"Soul Hunter"
"Born to the Purple"
"Infection"
"The Parliament of Dreams"
"Mind War"
"The War Prayer"
"And the Sky Full of Stars"
"Deathwalker"
"Believers"
"Survivors"
"By Any Means Necessary"
"Signs and Portents"
"TKO"
"Grail"
"Eyes"
"Legacies"
"A Voice in the Wilderness (Part 1)"
"A Voice in the Wilderness (Part 2)"
"Babylon Squared"
"The Quality of Mercy"
"Chrysalis"
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