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Old February 12 2013, 03:17 PM   #421
Robert Maxwell
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Re: Once Upon A Time - Season 2 Thread

I don't get people claiming this show isn't "dark." It may not be in-your-face with the doom and gloom, but let's remember:

* Regina and Cora have both killed people by pulling out their "hearts" and grinding them into dust.
* Rumple is possibly responsible for even more deaths than Regina and has, on more than one occasion, killed people by transforming them into other animals/objects (and then sometimes destroying them.)
* In the most recent episode, humans invaded the realm of the giants, attacked them with poison arrows, and massacred a basically innocent family just so they could raid their treasure.
* Regina virtually annihilated the world they all came from and cursed hundreds(?) of people out of her insane jealousy of and hatred for Snow White.
* King George is pretty vile himself, threatening to murder a mother to gain her son's cooperation in a massive political fraud to secure King Midas' trust and money.

There's a lot of violence and psychotic behavior in this show, even if much of it is implied rather than shown. Not dark? What show are you guys watching?
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Old February 12 2013, 03:51 PM   #422
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Re: Once Upon A Time - Season 2 Thread

And let's not forget Prince James callously leaving his lover, Jack, to die.
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Old February 12 2013, 04:00 PM   #423
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Re: Once Upon A Time - Season 2 Thread

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
I don't get people claiming this show isn't "dark." It may not be in-your-face with the doom and gloom, but let's remember:

* Regina and Cora have both killed people by pulling out their "hearts" and grinding them into dust.
* Rumple is possibly responsible for even more deaths than Regina and has, on more than one occasion, killed people by transforming them into other animals/objects (and then sometimes destroying them.)
* In the most recent episode, humans invaded the realm of the giants, attacked them with poison arrows, and massacred a basically innocent family just so they could raid their treasure.
* Regina virtually annihilated the world they all came from and cursed hundreds(?) of people out of her insane jealousy of and hatred for Snow White.
* King George is pretty vile himself, threatening to murder a mother to gain her son's cooperation in a massive political fraud to secure King Midas' trust and money.

There's a lot of violence and psychotic behavior in this show, even if much of it is implied rather than shown. Not dark? What show are you guys watching?
Yea, I think lot of people think in order for a show to be "dark" it has to be non-stop depression and hopelessness like NuBSG, or completely unlikable characters who do nothing but constantly fight like S1 SGU. I think Charlie Jade, actually is darker and grittier than NuBSG, but, it's more enjoyable to watch, because you don't have the non-stop hopelessness, and you have a villian, who's creepy and dark, but, also lightens up the mood with one-liners. The Walking Dead could very well be even more depressing than NuBSG, but, they have found a balance where it doesn't sink into those depths of depression.
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Old February 12 2013, 04:38 PM   #424
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Re: Once Upon A Time - Season 2 Thread

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Meanwhile, did either Belle or Greg Mendel notice the fifty-foot-tall giant stomping through the town?
Maybe the hospital is on the other side of town.

As they were stuck inside anyway, even if they felt tremors, they could have been told it was earthquakes or nearby construction or something.
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Old February 12 2013, 05:45 PM   #425
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Re: Once Upon A Time - Season 2 Thread

Most fairytales and folk stories of any type are fairly dark and disturbing in their original unaltered forms. People seem to forget this a lot. Once is really no darker than many of the original stories from which it has drawn its characters and inspiration.
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Old February 12 2013, 07:03 PM   #426
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Re: Once Upon A Time - Season 2 Thread

stj -

Speaking of which, King George gets to be forgiven Evil Kingdom. I suppose Regina can't be, because women are truly evil. As to the custody issue, skipping over Maine law, the sad truth is that the parenting skills of Emma, Snow and Charming are not as obvious as the show seems to think. I doubt Lana Parilla is actually much (any?) older than Goodwin, Morrison or Dallas, but somehow she seems so much more adult.
Snow's response annoyed me. I know that Regina has done some horrible things, but Henry is legally Regina's child. She raised him until he is what? 12?

Emma gave up all rights and has never to my knowledge attempted to regain those rights.

Yes Regina was out of communication. Fine that makes sense. But, would it have not been better to point out the threat Cora posed and say Henry was safer out of town?

Instead, Snow says that Emma does not have to clear it with Regina? BS

Henry is basically at a sleepover. Regina is that kid's mom.
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Old February 12 2013, 07:31 PM   #427
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Re: Once Upon A Time - Season 2 Thread

^^^ I'm starting to wonder what defines "legal" in Storybrook now. Is the town holden to the laws and precepts of the State of Maine or the Constitution and laws of the United States, even if (until recently) it didn't appear on any map anywhere and was in an isolated magical bubble? Storybrook follows many of the conventions of local government but, having been "off the grid" for so long, so to speak, and coming from a realm that largely follows a quasi-medieval feudal/monarchical system of governance, how much of these rules (i.e. Henry's parentage) really apply? Emma and Charming(David) have both been sheriffs of the town, but they certainly don't act like one would expect a sheriff to act in this day and age.

Seems to me that, to the people of an ancient and magical world, bloodline counts for more than paper.
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Old February 13 2013, 02:33 AM   #428
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Re: Once Upon A Time - Season 2 Thread

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
^^^ I'm starting to wonder what defines "legal" in Storybrook now. Is the town holden to the laws and precepts of the State of Maine or the Constitution and laws of the United States, even if (until recently) it didn't appear on any map anywhere and was in an isolated magical bubble? Storybrook follows many of the conventions of local government but, having been "off the grid" for so long, so to speak, and coming from a realm that largely follows a quasi-medieval feudal/monarchical system of governance, how much of these rules (i.e. Henry's parentage) really apply? Emma and Charming(David) have both been sheriffs of the town, but they certainly don't act like one would expect a sheriff to act in this day and age.

Seems to me that, to the people of an ancient and magical world, bloodline counts for more than paper.

Thought his name was James David Charming lol
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Old February 13 2013, 03:21 AM   #429
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Re: Once Upon A Time - Season 2 Thread

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Old February 13 2013, 06:34 AM   #430
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Re: Once Upon A Time - Season 2 Thread

If those are true, both are quite welcoming to me. More so the first one.
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Old February 13 2013, 10:48 AM   #431
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Re: Once Upon A Time - Season 2 Thread

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
I don't get people claiming this show isn't "dark." It may not be in-your-face with the doom and gloom, but let's remember:

* Regina and Cora have both killed people by pulling out their "hearts" and grinding them into dust.
* Rumple is possibly responsible for even more deaths than Regina and has, on more than one occasion, killed people by transforming them into other animals/objects (and then sometimes destroying them.)
* In the most recent episode, humans invaded the realm of the giants, attacked them with poison arrows, and massacred a basically innocent family just so they could raid their treasure.
* Regina virtually annihilated the world they all came from and cursed hundreds(?) of people out of her insane jealousy of and hatred for Snow White.
* King George is pretty vile himself, threatening to murder a mother to gain her son's cooperation in a massive political fraud to secure King Midas' trust and money.

There's a lot of violence and psychotic behavior in this show, even if much of it is implied rather than shown. Not dark? What show are you guys watching?
Yea, I think lot of people think in order for a show to be "dark" it has to be non-stop depression and hopelessness like NuBSG, or completely unlikable characters who do nothing but constantly fight like S1 SGU. I think Charlie Jade, actually is darker and grittier than NuBSG, but, it's more enjoyable to watch, because you don't have the non-stop hopelessness, and you have a villian, who's creepy and dark, but, also lightens up the mood with one-liners. The Walking Dead could very well be even more depressing than NuBSG, but, they have found a balance where it doesn't sink into those depths of depression.
That's exactly it. "Dark," as used by the contemporary audience, refers to those awkward adolescent attempts at cynicism like nuBSG and the like. Like any drama, OUAT has its fair share of tragedy and loss, but it has never stooped to that level.
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Old February 13 2013, 01:26 PM   #432
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Re: Once Upon A Time - Season 2 Thread

Once Upon a Time doesn't pretend that King George's or Queen Regina's ruthlessness is a tragic necessity for governance in a world not made for saints. Or that their couldn't really be seven dwarfs because real people inevitably go off in different directions against all persuasion or fight each other because time passes. Or that supposedly good people are either irrelevant because they're all nerdy in the face of badassery. Or that their goodness is meaningless is they haven't got the balls to kill.

A lot of people have a worldview that is rather sociopathic when you spell it out, so they like to call it an esthetic preference for shades of grey or moral ambiguity, as opposed to childishness. It is definitely true that Once Upon a Time fails the dark and gritty test, no matter how dark the villainy, no matter how human the villains motivations and no matter how hard it is to be a hero. Because in the end the insistence on dark and gritty is all about validating the Politically Correct (in this society, reactionary) worldview.
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Old February 13 2013, 03:47 PM   #433
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Re: Once Upon A Time - Season 2 Thread

Its on a major network, at 8 o'clock, Sunday night.

Its as "dark and gritty" as its gonna get.
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Old February 13 2013, 04:54 PM   #434
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Re: Once Upon A Time - Season 2 Thread

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
Seems to me that, to the people of an ancient and magical world, bloodline counts for more than paper.
This.

They come from a fairytale world - justice trumps law.

(And I do feel sorry for Regina and I do think she loves Henry, but if Emma is stepping up finally and Henry agrees, she's his mother and gets to make the decisions about him. In a fairytale-rules, non U.S.-laws world.)

Plus, even David in this episode brought up the question of what happens when a kid (James - or Regina?) is brought up by an evil person (George - or Cora?) - how does that change who the child will grow up to be? Who would James have been if he'd been brought up by David's side by their sweet mother? How strong is nature vs. nurture? Who will Henry be outside of Regina's influence, and under Emma's? Who would he have become if he'd stayed with Regina? Would he have continued to fight to be like David, or would he have become like James?

Personally, I think Henry is more like David than anyone else. I think he's just an intrinsically good kid with a good moral compass, moreso even than his mother or grandmother. That's why I actually liked the David/Henry bonding scenes we saw when Emma and Snow were away. I hope that continues in some form once they have time for it in their lives.
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Old February 13 2013, 11:10 PM   #435
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Re: Once Upon A Time - Season 2 Thread

stj wrote: View Post
Once Upon a Time doesn't pretend that King George's or Queen Regina's ruthlessness is a tragic necessity for governance in a world not made for saints. Or that their couldn't really be seven dwarfs because real people inevitably go off in different directions against all persuasion or fight each other because time passes. Or that supposedly good people are either irrelevant because they're all nerdy in the face of badassery. Or that their goodness is meaningless is they haven't got the balls to kill.

A lot of people have a worldview that is rather sociopathic when you spell it out, so they like to call it an esthetic preference for shades of grey or moral ambiguity, as opposed to childishness. It is definitely true that Once Upon a Time fails the dark and gritty test, no matter how dark the villainy, no matter how human the villains motivations and no matter how hard it is to be a hero. Because in the end the insistence on dark and gritty is all about validating the Politically Correct (in this society, reactionary) worldview.
Well said.
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