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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old September 23 2012, 12:23 AM   #1
Fleet Captain
Massive windows!

I've never heard people mention this. but aren't the windows on the Enterprise-D model massively out of scale?,_2364.jpg
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Old September 23 2012, 01:48 AM   #2
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Location: Kansas City
Re: Massive windows!

Yes and no. Andrew Probert who did the original designs for the ship is no slouch when it comes to detail and certainly wouldn't have missed something like making the windows "massively out of scale."

The E-D's saucer rim was only supposed to be one deck thick with the windows on the top and bottom of the saucer rim being windows to a darkened lounge one could walk around. In the second season when 10-Fwd was introduced it was decided that this window configuration wouldn't be practical for a TV show and the "view" outside the windows would only give a dramatic impact from certain angles. (The lower set of windows rarely seen and the center section of the views obscured by the sensor strip.) So, instead, it was decided the saucer rim was two decks thick with 10-Fwd being the lower set of windows along the rim.

Naturally this threw a lot of things off when it comes to the "scale" of the ship with the saucer rim now being 2 decks thick rather than 1, not to mention on the original model there was no window configuration that matched 10-Fwd's windows nor were any of these windows lit. (In part due to the limitations of the way they lit the model necessitating the "darkened lounge" idea.")

So after the introduction of 10-Fwd, yeah, it certainly makes the scale of the ship odd and Probert and others have tried to reconcile the two concepts together in numerous ways ever since (particularly in cutaways and other blueprints of the ship.)

This was somewhat rectified when the smaller model was built before the fourth season that better proportioned the windows and placed the correct (and lit) 10-Fwd windows on the model. Unfortuantely this model (the 4-Footer) is much maligned by fans because it has exaggerated details on it, less graceful lines and even looks "bulky" around the edges. It lacks the certain "grace" the original 6-Foot had.

But the 4-Foot model likely is better scaled with how we know the ship to be laid-out in the series but the actual "look" of the ship when it comes to her lines, grace, and coloring is how the 6-Foot model looks.
Out of hope.
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Old September 23 2012, 09:49 AM   #3
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Location: Maurice in San Francisco
Re: Massive windows!

The windows on the saucer top and bottom were always problematic because many of them end up practically on the ceiling on floor, so they ended up being very long.
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Old September 23 2012, 11:55 AM   #4
Salinga's Avatar
Re: Massive windows!

I always explained it to myself that way, that the long lit windows on the lower part of the saucer are transparent floor elements that people could see through if they stand on them.
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Old September 23 2012, 12:40 PM   #5
Robert Comsol
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Location: USS Berlin
Re: Massive windows!

Trekker4747 has provided a concise summary of the issue. To illustrate it, I would refer to this interview with Andrew Probert:

Check out the interview starting with question # 23. Another issue is, of course, the angle of the large windows in the crew's quarters (way too steep).

And there's still the question where to locate the observation lounge on the Enterprise-D from the opening shot in "Encounter at Farpoint" (the conference lounge is at the back of the bridge).
I already wonder how they are going to do this in the "special edition" of TNG one day, when they will use an uninterrupted CGI camera zoom onto Picard (but considering how amazingly they did this in the TOS-R opening shot in "The Cage" I'm confident it's gonna look great).

I think the size of the windows of the Enterprise-D is a visual hint of technical evolution in the 24th Century compared to the state-of-the-art in the 23rd Century. Some windows of the Enterprise-A already then were rather large (e.g. main recreation room starboard aft).
Unfortunately, we didn't see that many exterior windows in TOS, except for Captain Pike's quarters in TOS-R (probably somewhere below the bridge), the hangar deck and in "The Mark of Gideon".

In my humble opinion they could have CGI inserted one or two windows in one of the many TOS conference rooms (to suggest some are at the outer saucer rim), but that's a different story.

"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
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Old September 25 2012, 03:35 AM   #6
Vice Admiral
Location: Sac, Ca
Re: Massive windows!

Yeah the Ent-D was supposed to be twice the size of the original and movie-era ships, but it looks like the windows were still basically at the same scale.

But that's probably because anything smaller just wouldn't have read as well on the old low-resolution TVs.
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Old September 25 2012, 01:08 PM   #7
Fleet Captain
Mytran's Avatar
Location: North Wales
Re: Massive windows!

The windows are really big, because they are slanted. The ones on the saucer underside are even more slanted, and so look HUGE. But they're still only one deck high and it matches out fairly well.

To see the true height of the decks, look at the dorsal "neck" of the ship, where the walls are more or less flat. Those windows really look tiny!
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Old September 26 2012, 04:29 AM   #8
Vice Admiral
Location: Sac, Ca
Re: Massive windows!

^ Yeah, but those windows on the neck are actually a lot shorter as well. It's not just a perspective thing.

It was especially obvious on the old ERTL model kit.
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Old September 26 2012, 09:54 AM   #9
EmperorTiberius's Avatar
Re: Massive windows!

davejames wrote: View Post
Yeah the Ent-D was supposed to be twice the size of the original and movie-era ships, but it looks like the windows were still basically at the same scale.

Around 10 times the size of the original.
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