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Fan Productions Creating our own Trek canon!

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Old April 9 2014, 11:22 PM   #436
doubleohfive
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

No question, the cast Alec has lined up for this film is easily the most impressive since Of Gods and Men and later, Renegades.

What remains to be seen is the very fact that we've not seen a single frame of footage that isn't just fancy visual effects by Tobias Richter of that same fanwank ship crusing through atmospheric clouds. It's impeccably realized vfx, but it's still all we've seen.

Of more concern to me is simply the concept that among this impressive cast (Kate Vernon, Tony Todd, Richard Hatch, JG Hertzler, Michael Hogan, possibly now, apparently, Faran Tahir, et al) Alec has situated himself as the lead actor of the entire piece, thereby fulfilling the age-old axiom that fan films are really just the fans playing dress-up. Of course Alec is the lead actor. Of course he's the captain of the hero ship. It makes perfect sense.

What will be truly interesting to see will be whether those acting classes he has been taking will actually pay off. He doesn't need to be the next Laurence Olivier here (though it would certainly help) but right now as we don't have anything from which to base Axanar on performance-wise, it's awfully hard not to be worried that it'll just be another passionate fan playing dress-up with his fancy expensive sets and a bunch of legit actors he's paying to come play with him. (Note: There are three "L"s in 'Melllvar.")

All we really have to go on is some repurposed footage of Alec as Garth of Izar from Phase II's "Origins" that Alec put up on the Axanar site a few months ago as part of his promotional blitz. If that's all we have to go on, I wouldn't hold my breath that this will be an especially amazing performance.
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Old April 10 2014, 12:17 AM   #437
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

^ Frankly I'm not evaluating things like Phase Two or Axanar by the standards of high-budget studio product; I'm duly impressed if a fan-film even approaches studio quality. If I couldn't enjoy watching passionate fans play dress-up I certainly wouldn't bother.

So from a viewer's perspective I'm not that "concerned" about anything related to the production. I just think it's cool that things like this are happening at all. (And I don't find that short glimpse of Alec in the footage you linked as discouraging as you seem to do, mileage of course may vary.)
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Old April 10 2014, 03:12 AM   #438
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

Tough to tell much from that very short clip. It's certainly not a sizzle reel that would ever land anyone an acting gig, but it's short and without context at the same time, so I wouldn't feel comfortable saying right off the top that we're in for a rocky ride.

I think fan films are always bound to be wish fulfillment, no matter how much money is spent or familiar actors brought into the fold. Sometimes that works out and sometimes it doesn't. I guess we'll see how it turns out in this case a couple years down the line.
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Old April 10 2014, 09:16 AM   #439
tobiasrichter
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

Alec also did the "Garth" role in "Going boldly", the last Phase II vignette...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlgaaNfhdYY

He takes acting very seriously and I´m convinced he will do a great job.
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Old April 10 2014, 12:11 PM   #440
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

I never blame actors for bad performances. I blame directors. The director has to know what he wants from the performer, and he has to have the time, skill, crew and equipment to get that performance. It would help Axanar if they have a lot of filming days. No need to rush anything.

The Space Command project recently announced that they filmed 35 pages of script in three days. That's an aggressive shooting schedule, I would think.
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Old April 10 2014, 04:21 PM   #441
PattyW
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

Loken wrote: View Post
The Axanar team is very proud to announce that veteran actress Kate Vernon, known best for her role as Ellen Tigh in the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica, has joined the cast as Sonya Alexander a hot shot Starfleet captain.

Director Christian Gossett and I have been working hard to develop a strong female captain for the final battle.
In the time period BEFORE TOS? Oy...I really have trouble respecting fan films that don't respect the source material. It stops my "suspension of disbelief" and I can't get into the story.

TOS made it EXCEPTIONALLY clear that women are not allowed to be captains in Star Fleet...one woman was so overwhelmed by trying to buck that system that she went insane.

So, unless you tell me that this "strong female Star Fleet captain" is actually a complete emotional wreck and incompetent screw-up that, you know, made Star Fleet rule "no more women in the command seat!" - it just comes off as fan wankery...which, personally, makes me lose respect for any project...because when you see it once from producers, it's a fair bet you'll see it a lot.

Just my personal opinion.
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Old April 10 2014, 04:27 PM   #442
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

Loken wrote: View Post
If you want the current updates on Axanar, we have a special forum all about Axanar for donors in our Kickstarter where we share lots of inside information, photos and video. Plus there are regular updates on our Kickstarter.

I will no longer be updating this thread. You can also check our Facebook page for updates.

Alec
While some people have noted the problems with FaceBook... it, and a forum of your own, have the unique advantages of allowing you to control who can post or comment, as well as making sure only positive comments or thoughts get posted.

There's another group doing that same thing - and it's working for them.
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Old April 10 2014, 04:29 PM   #443
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

andriech wrote: View Post
TOS made it EXCEPTIONALLY clear that women are not allowed to be captains in Star Fleet...
And it was a bad idea from a ridiculous episode that filmmakers actually living in the 21st century are perfectly free to drop. The point of the exercise being that the results should be fun, not painstakingly faithful to the mores of Sixties sexism.

TOS' first dictum was believability, and its base template for Starfleet was the American Navy. They could get away with not having female starship Captains in an age that had no actual female ship Captains (at least not commanding combat ships). We don't live in such an age, and it doesn't make sense for anybody to confine themselves to that standard.
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Old April 10 2014, 04:39 PM   #444
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

BigJake wrote: View Post
andriech wrote: View Post
TOS made it EXCEPTIONALLY clear that women are not allowed to be captains in Star Fleet...
And it was a bad idea from a ridiculous episode that filmmakers actually living in the 21st century are perfectly free to drop. The point of the exercise being that the results should be fun, not painstakingly faithful to the mores of Sixties sexism.

TOS' first dictum was believability, and its base template for Starfleet was the American Navy. They could get away with not having female starship Captains in an age that had no actual female ship Captains (at least not commanding combat ships). We don't live in such an age, and it doesn't make sense for anybody to confine themselves to that standard.
Absolutely.
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Old April 10 2014, 04:55 PM   #445
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

I love a thread in which the men are the feminists and a female is supporting a male-leader-only view. Carry on, BigJake and Corporal Captain. I salute you.
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Old April 10 2014, 05:09 PM   #446
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

There is nothing in TOS that says that women cannot command starships other than the rantings of a character written to be imbalanced. There's a line where Kirk says her treatment wasn't fair, but she's supposedly dying in bed at that point. Who argues with someone on their deathbed about matters which, in the context of dying, mean little?

Moments later, that same woman rants that Kirk always wanted to kill her:

"You should've smothered the life in me. Then they would have said Doctor Janice Lester died of radiation poisoning in the line of duty. Why didn't you do it? You always wanted to. Didn't you? You had the strength to do it. But you were afraid. You were always afraid. Now Janice Lester takes the place of Captain Kirk. I already possess your physical strength. Only this Captain Kirk is not afraid to kill. Now you know the indignity of being a woman. For you this agony will soon pass, as it has for me. Quiet. Quiet! Believe me, it's better to be dead than to live alone in the body of a woman. It's better to be dead. "

Here's a person who hates herself, for who knows what reasons. But it's likely not because of Starfleet supposedly not allowing women to be captains.

In fact, Trek (on screen canon) shows female captains on starships predate the Federation:

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Erika_Hernandez
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Old April 10 2014, 05:09 PM   #447
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

andriech wrote: View Post
Loken wrote: View Post
The Axanar team is very proud to announce that veteran actress Kate Vernon, known best for her role as Ellen Tigh in the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica, has joined the cast as Sonya Alexander a hot shot Starfleet captain.

Director Christian Gossett and I have been working hard to develop a strong female captain for the final battle.
In the time period BEFORE TOS? Oy...I really have trouble respecting fan films that don't respect the source material. It stops my "suspension of disbelief" and I can't get into the story.

TOS made it EXCEPTIONALLY clear that women are not allowed to be captains in Star Fleet...one woman was so overwhelmed by trying to buck that system that she went insane.

So, unless you tell me that this "strong female Star Fleet captain" is actually a complete emotional wreck and incompetent screw-up that, you know, made Star Fleet rule "no more women in the command seat!" - it just comes off as fan wankery...which, personally, makes me lose respect for any project...because when you see it once from producers, it's a fair bet you'll see it a lot.

Just my personal opinion.
andriech:

The actual smoking gun line from "Turnabout Intruder" is: "Your world of starship captains doesn't admit women."

Although it could mean that women are not permitted to be starship captains, it might just mean that crazy. murderous Dr. Lester falsely believes that women are not permitted to be starship captains. (She doesn't seem to be a very reliable historian. I'm not convinced that "Kirk walked out on her" is an accurate account, either.)

Also, as has been discussed ad nauseum, the quote might simply mean "Your world and life as a starship captain doesn't permit any time for women in your life.)

I think that Dr. Lester's single line has considerable wiggle room.

More discussion here:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=225631
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Old April 10 2014, 05:52 PM   #448
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

I'd also like to point out that the ship's executive officer in the very first episode of Star Trek was a woman. One step away from command if the captain himself was incapacitated, and, arguably, in charge of the Enterprise through a substantial part of the episode. It's ridiculous to assume Star Fleet or UESPA would let a woman get that high in rank, yet not allow her to go any further.

Lester washed out because of her own inadequacies as a person, not as a woman, and chose to salve her ego with a fantasy of male domination. A number of explanations will fit the on-screen dialog, as has been discussed.
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Old April 10 2014, 06:07 PM   #449
Ronald Held
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

I think a female Captain is a minor issue of how slavish to TOS continuity Axanar will be.
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Old April 10 2014, 06:09 PM   #450
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
andriech wrote: View Post
Loken wrote: View Post
The Axanar team is very proud to announce that veteran actress Kate Vernon, known best for her role as Ellen Tigh in the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica, has joined the cast as Sonya Alexander a hot shot Starfleet captain.

Director Christian Gossett and I have been working hard to develop a strong female captain for the final battle.
In the time period BEFORE TOS? Oy...I really have trouble respecting fan films that don't respect the source material. It stops my "suspension of disbelief" and I can't get into the story.

TOS made it EXCEPTIONALLY clear that women are not allowed to be captains in Star Fleet...one woman was so overwhelmed by trying to buck that system that she went insane.

So, unless you tell me that this "strong female Star Fleet captain" is actually a complete emotional wreck and incompetent screw-up that, you know, made Star Fleet rule "no more women in the command seat!" - it just comes off as fan wankery...which, personally, makes me lose respect for any project...because when you see it once from producers, it's a fair bet you'll see it a lot.

Just my personal opinion.
andriech:

The actual smoking gun line from "Turnabout Intruder" is: "Your world of starship captains doesn't admit women."

Although it could mean that women are not permitted to be starship captains, it might just mean that crazy. murderous Dr. Lester falsely believes that women are not permitted to be starship captains. (She doesn't seem to be a very reliable historian. I'm not convinced that "Kirk walked out on her" is an accurate account, either.)

Also, as has been discussed ad nauseum, the quote might simply mean "Your world and life as a starship captain doesn't permit any time for women in your life.)

I think that Dr. Lester's single line has considerable wiggle room.

More discussion here:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=225631
Oh, there are several smoking gun lines in "Turnabout Intruder".


Based on experience, the chances that we are all going to agree on the interpretation of the episode are exactly zero.

In any case, TI is irrelevant here. The point is that fan films aren't obliged to be slavishly consistent with canon, any more than episodes produced in canon were obliged not to contradict earlier episodes. What's interesting in each fan film production is how each team chooses to adapt the material. Will they stay boxed in by previous continuity and be retrograde, or will they expand the universe, and if they choose to expand, how seamlessly will the new material they bring fit next to the parts of canon that the production incorporates verbatim?
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