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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old September 24 2012, 11:00 AM   #16
Tiberius
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Looking back on it now, the actual crash does look pretty dated. But it is still well done, given when it was made, etc.

One thing about the evacuation that has always puzzled me: why was Sickbay evacuated?

Sickbay was on deck twelve of the Saucer Section, close to the centre of the deck to afford it as much protection as possible. No medical facility was ever established as being in the Drive Section, though it would make sense when the ship was separated, so as to treat casualties during a combat situation--but why would Beverly be there instead of the main facility?
The sickbay in the saucer isn't the only sickbay on the ship. In fact, given that the stardrive is the bit that is more likely to go into battle, it would make sense it has medical facilities there too. You wouldn't want your crew to die just because the saucer took the hospital when it scampered off.
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Old September 24 2012, 04:13 PM   #17
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Looking back on it now, the actual crash does look pretty dated. But it is still well done, given when it was made, etc.

One thing about the evacuation that has always puzzled me: why was Sickbay evacuated?

Sickbay was on deck twelve of the Saucer Section, close to the centre of the deck to afford it as much protection as possible. No medical facility was ever established as being in the Drive Section, though it would make sense when the ship was separated, so as to treat casualties during a combat situation--but why would Beverly be there instead of the main facility?
The sickbay in the saucer isn't the only sickbay on the ship. In fact, given that the stardrive is the bit that is more likely to go into battle, it would make sense it has medical facilities there too. You wouldn't want your crew to die just because the saucer took the hospital when it scampered off.
I acknowledge that as a logical assumption, though such a facility was never stated to exist (although on the E-E, there seems to be a small medical bay on the same deck as main engineering). But why would Dr Crusher be there? Surely she would be in the main ward seeing to things there and leave a subordinate (Selar, Martin) in charge of the stardrive sickbay evacuation.
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Old September 24 2012, 05:11 PM   #18
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

Knight Templar wrote: View Post
I remember when "Generations" came out, reviewers praised the saucer crash as being one of the shows great moments and a special effects triumph.

I was rewatching it the other day and seeing it now it seems horrendously long and tedious. A lot like the infamous "disaster" flicks from the 1970s that dwells forever on things breaking, people falling, and sparks flying.

Anyone else feelt this way?
The crash-sequence is one of the high points of that film.

The VFX-elements are beautifully shot.

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Old September 24 2012, 06:14 PM   #19
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

Visually-wise it is probably one of the best sequences of all movies.
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Old September 24 2012, 08:32 PM   #20
Finngle Bells
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

R. Star wrote: View Post
^


2) Yes, really. Those windows are expected to survive weapon blasts, crashes and other such trauma in space. Then they break when there's a crash scene? There's no reason for that but lack of continuity and that someone on the set thought it would be "cool."
No, they aren't expected to by themselves, or phasers and torpodeos wouldn't be able to cut through a whole saucer section in those battles we saw in various Trek episodes and movies.... Of course those windows would break, Did you think the hull of the saucer would just buckle and dent without affecting the windows after impacting the ground especially when it is designed for outer space.

Tiberius wrote: View Post
3) Yes, the did have to evacuate the crew. That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the civilians. There were tons of them being moved in that scene, especially that little dramatic scene of the girl dropping her bear. The whole point of a separable ship is to keep the civilians safe in crisis situations. That means they should all be in the saucer. But evacuating the crew wouldn't be "dramatic" so yeah.
Well, they might have been in a classroom in the neck or something...
It'd explain why there was so many children without a parent present...
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Old September 25 2012, 12:20 AM   #21
SchwEnt
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

The evacuation scene was nonsense, just staged for the sake of dramatic urgency. All the kids and families should have been in the saucer anyway. Only thing I can think of was evacuating from the outer saucer sections (near the hull surface) towards the inner saucer core for more protection. It's a really big saucer, I can understand a rush to get to the center from the outer rim.

Otherwise, I didn't much care for the saucer crash. Not storywise in the film, not technically for the effect.

I'm the first one to prefer model work over CGI. Maybe it was trubble with the scaling or the lighting, but I never got a sense of the real supposed size of the saucer. I never bought into it as the real thing, I wasn't convinced. I always saw it as an effect, a model shot. I couldn't buy into it as "real", even if I still can appreciate the work that went into the scene.

The BoP landing on Vulcan in TSFS, that looked real. The Enterprise in drydock in TMP, that looked huge and real. The saucer crashing in GEN? Didn't work for me.

And even if it did, I didn't want to see Ent-D destroyed anyway and I didn't like the stupid reason it happened in the movie, so low marks all around for me.
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Old September 25 2012, 02:33 AM   #22
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

I see no problem with evacuating people from the stardrive to the saucer. The saucer is composed primarily quarters, with a few offices. Most of the people on the Enterprise would presumably have jobs, and those jobs would probably be in the stardrive. As noted above, same with children attending school or class trips to other parts of the ship, which would probably be a common occurrence.
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Old September 25 2012, 03:59 AM   #23
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say the reason the sequence looks model model-y than the motion control stuff is that at least some of the saucer crash was shot outdoors with high-speed cameras instead on in a controlled studio environment where the motion control rig can move very slowly and take long exposures to try to cheat the depth of field.
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Old September 25 2012, 10:38 AM   #24
R. Star
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

Finn wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
^


2) Yes, really. Those windows are expected to survive weapon blasts, crashes and other such trauma in space. Then they break when there's a crash scene? There's no reason for that but lack of continuity and that someone on the set thought it would be "cool."
No, they aren't expected to by themselves, or phasers and torpodeos wouldn't be able to cut through a whole saucer section in those battles we saw in various Trek episodes and movies.... Of course those windows would break, Did you think the hull of the saucer would just buckle and dent without affecting the windows after impacting the ground especially when it is designed for outer space.

Tiberius wrote: View Post
3) Yes, the did have to evacuate the crew. That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the civilians. There were tons of them being moved in that scene, especially that little dramatic scene of the girl dropping her bear. The whole point of a separable ship is to keep the civilians safe in crisis situations. That means they should all be in the saucer. But evacuating the crew wouldn't be "dramatic" so yeah.
Well, they might have been in a classroom in the neck or something...
It'd explain why there was so many children without a parent present...

The windows are transparent aluminum... this is stated. If the ship supposedly crashed hard enough to shatter metal then why didn't anything else shatter? Why don't they shatter when photon torpedoes strike the ship. Those should be impacting with as much force than any collision. It's just sloppy any way you look at it and the effects people forgot those windows were supposed to not be glass.

And moving the children into the star drive for any reason is just stupid. Worf even jumps on a kid's case when he's caught wondering down there one episode. Again, the whole purpose of the saucer section is to have all the civilians in it when they need to separate on a moment's notice... so they'd have those classrooms there too. There's no other reason for this that doesn't require the main character to be stupid to explain it... the real reason is just artificial drama.
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Old September 25 2012, 11:01 AM   #25
tighr
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

R. Star wrote: View Post
Again, the whole purpose of the saucer section is to have all the civilians in it when they need to separate on a moment's notice...
It sure would suck to be out in space on this big ol' spaceship and not be allowed to leave my room.
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Old September 25 2012, 11:19 AM   #26
Tiberius
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

R. Star wrote: View Post
The windows are transparent aluminum... this is stated. If the ship supposedly crashed hard enough to shatter metal then why didn't anything else shatter? Why don't they shatter when photon torpedoes strike the ship. Those should be impacting with as much force than any collision. It's just sloppy any way you look at it and the effects people forgot those windows were supposed to not be glass.
Different metals break under different stresses.

And moving the children into the star drive for any reason is just stupid. Worf even jumps on a kid's case when he's caught wondering down there one episode. Again, the whole purpose of the saucer section is to have all the civilians in it when they need to separate on a moment's notice... so they'd have those classrooms there too. There's no other reason for this that doesn't require the main character to be stupid to explain it... the real reason is just artificial drama.
Maybe they were on a school excursion or something. Maybe camping beneath the deuterium tanks.
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Old September 25 2012, 04:29 PM   #27
beamMe
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

Maurice wrote: View Post
If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say the reason the sequence looks model model-y than the motion control stuff is that at least some of the saucer crash was shot outdoors with high-speed cameras instead on in a controlled studio environment where the motion control rig can move very slowly and take long exposures to try to cheat the depth of field.
It's basically the same with the scene in Titanic when the ship breaks apart.
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Old September 25 2012, 05:01 PM   #28
R. Star
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

Tiberius wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
The windows are transparent aluminum... this is stated. If the ship supposedly crashed hard enough to shatter metal then why didn't anything else shatter? Why don't they shatter when photon torpedoes strike the ship. Those should be impacting with as much force than any collision. It's just sloppy any way you look at it and the effects people forgot those windows were supposed to not be glass.
Different metals break under different stresses.

And moving the children into the star drive for any reason is just stupid. Worf even jumps on a kid's case when he's caught wondering down there one episode. Again, the whole purpose of the saucer section is to have all the civilians in it when they need to separate on a moment's notice... so they'd have those classrooms there too. There's no other reason for this that doesn't require the main character to be stupid to explain it... the real reason is just artificial drama.
Maybe they were on a school excursion or something. Maybe camping beneath the deuterium tanks.
It's a thin excuse and I suspect you know it about the glass. As for camping trips? That's another excuse and not a good one. If they want to camp they have... holodecks... in the Saucer... there's no reason AT ALL any civilian should have been in the drive section.
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Old September 26 2012, 12:28 AM   #29
Finngle Bells
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

R. Star wrote: View Post
And moving the children into the star drive for any reason is just stupid. Worf even jumps on a kid's case when he's caught wondering down there one episode. Again, the whole purpose of the saucer section is to have all the civilians in it when they need to separate on a moment's notice... so they'd have those classrooms there too. There's no other reason for this that doesn't require the main character to be stupid to explain it... the real reason is just artificial drama.
That girl with the imaginary friend was right outside Main Engineering when Worf caught her. The classrooms may have been in the neck, far from engineering...
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Old September 26 2012, 01:11 AM   #30
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

Face it. The idea of "children on the Enterprise" was a bad one to begin with and was never well written.
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