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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old September 23 2012, 04:12 PM   #16
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Did the Voyager crew make the wrong call in Memorial? "

Janeway was entirely within her rights to do what she did. She took the best possible way out of the situation.

While it was certainly a worthwhile goal to erect the memorial in the first place, the fact remains: the integrity of the mind is an ABSOLUTE right. The makers of the memorial had no right to force their memories into others without consent. I don't care what the memorial was for - mind rape is not the way to go about it. That is in itself an attack upon Voyager's crew, and Janeway had the right to defend them from it.

Now that the memorial is fully repaired, and there is a warning of its existence, other crews will not be assaulted in the same fashion, and the memorial will still fulfill its purpose.
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Old September 23 2012, 04:46 PM   #17
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Re: Did the Voyager crew make the wrong call in Memorial? "

Yes, what right does a victim have to fight their rapist? Clearly they should submit to the act. Not only that they should help the rapist find more victims.

Seriously, calling that mind rape machine a memorial is almost like making a video game where you're an SS guard who has to run a concentration camp, gassing as many Jews as you can, and throwing their bodies into the incenerator/mass graves then calling it a tribute to the memory of the Jewish people. And even then at least the video game doesn't MAKE you play it.
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Old September 24 2012, 01:18 AM   #18
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Re: Did the Voyager crew make the wrong call in Memorial? "

Just turn the thing off, set up a few diagrams, and point new people to the on switch. With a crapload of warnings. The VOY crew survived it, you might get species tuned very differently who don't survive it, who go insane. Then you have a whole new genocide, or rather massacre.
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Old September 24 2012, 01:29 AM   #19
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Re: Did the Voyager crew make the wrong call in Memorial? "

^ Exactly. Does this thing make any allowances for different species and how they might react to having thoughts forced into their minds? I doubt the makers of the memorial even thought of that. Who's to say that some of those who had fallen 'victim' to the memorial didn't commit suicide over it, because they thought those memories were theirs?

That being said: I thought it would have been interesting if it had been Saavedra (the troop commander from the massacre) who had pushed for the construction of the memorial...
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Old September 24 2012, 01:47 AM   #20
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Re: Did the Voyager crew make the wrong call in Memorial? "

That "warning" Janeway put in was a probe in orbit of the planet. That thing broadcasts it's mind rape to the entire system, so before you could even get to that probe. That's about as dumb as putting a large statue of uranium in a very public area, then putting a sign next to it with a warning about radiactivity.

If this was the aliens idea of morality, they're clearly lacking it in any form. Instead of killing innocent people, we'll just violate them and make them completely miserable because of our sins... yeah. Let's have the Neo-Nazi's commemorate their sins by putting people through Holocaust simulators... it's really a tribute... a memorial... what a load of crock.
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Old September 24 2012, 02:03 AM   #21
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Re: Did the Voyager crew make the wrong call in Memorial? "

Let's trash it some more!

Did you know something quite shitty happened to me once in life, it wasn't on the scale of a massacre but nevertheless it was horrible. I don't want ANYONE to forget it, not just me or mine, but ANYONE. You must all remember my shitty incident forever because otherwise, after I am dead, no one will know! And that can't be allowed to happen. So I'm going to blast my experience into your brains. That way even after I'm long gone YOU will be the ones to carry on my pain.
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Old September 24 2012, 02:43 AM   #22
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Re: Did the Voyager crew make the wrong call in Memorial? "

What I don't understand is that a year earlier "Remember" is almost exactly the same episode, but awesome.

but then the whole Romeo and Juliet angle always tugs at my heart.
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Old September 24 2012, 03:08 AM   #23
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Re: Did the Voyager crew make the wrong call in Memorial? "

I think it not being about a long dead race changes the dynamics, remembering mistakes in their past would be helpful for their present society. It's a pretty gutting episode as far as the personal story goes.
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Old September 24 2012, 03:59 AM   #24
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Re: Did the Voyager crew make the wrong call in Memorial? "

No, there was an ethnic genocide in Remember. Just because the culture responsible for the Nazi-like murder factory processing the destruction of a "undesirable" minority was so orderly or that the naughty guys survived, it doesn't make it any less horrific than the mutually assured destruction we saw in Memorial.

Besides, in Remember there was a fantastic cover up that no one knew that anything odd have ever happened.

Have you seen Fatherland?

A movie about how the German people 20 years after winning the second world war finally begin to wonder where the Jews buggered off to?
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Old September 24 2012, 04:16 AM   #25
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Re: Did the Voyager crew make the wrong call in Memorial? "

I meant the Remember folk are still around so remembering or not remembering could have a real impact on their society. With the Memorial folk they don't exist any more so forgetting all about them has no effect on them.

The cover up part was great story wise but I'm thinking there would have been others who had heard something, suspected something. I guess I'll have to watch this one again.
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Old September 24 2012, 04:23 AM   #26
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Re: Did the Voyager crew make the wrong call in Memorial? "

They might be incredibly long lived?

What saw happen, could have been hundreds of years ago.

The tech we saw on their world looked like it might have been from the 1920s, but then so did Château Picard in 2365.
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Old September 24 2012, 04:26 AM   #27
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Re: Did the Voyager crew make the wrong call in Memorial? "

The Picards were all hipsters, their Chateau was the equivalent of a having a really groovy and uncomfortable vinyl couch from the Gary 7 era.
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Old September 24 2012, 05:04 AM   #28
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Re: Did the Voyager crew make the wrong call in Memorial? "

Oh you don't really think that that was Vinyl?

The Aegis used super science on everything in that office to optimize it all for efficiency and comfort.
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Old September 24 2012, 06:30 AM   #29
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Re: Did the Voyager crew make the wrong call in Memorial? "

Looking closer at the pictures I think it's velour.
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Old September 24 2012, 06:40 AM   #30
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Re: Did the Voyager crew make the wrong call in Memorial? "

It's impressive that you can take your eyes off Roberta.
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