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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 25 2012, 12:23 AM   #46
Set Harth
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

I do like that we're now calling Nero "the Nero" much like "the Donald".
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Old September 25 2012, 01:59 AM   #47
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post

Does anybody have any insight into what "Rura Penthe" means? Apart from "rura" being the Latinesque indicator that this is land of some sort, that is. Land of pain? Land of penalty? Land of the fifth sort of hell? Penthouse land?
If it's explained anywhere, it'll probably be in War and Peace (but I never did get through that one, so I can neither confirm nor deny.) Jules Verne apparently never used the name, though; it seems to have been introduced into the 20,000 Leagues story by the Disney folks who made the 1954 movie adaptation.
It's pretty damn hard to figure out what it means. Type Rura Penthe into Google, the first page is dominated by Star Trek results. Wikipedia just lists that the name was used in War and Peace, 20 000 Leagues and Trek.

For shits and giggles, I Googled Penthe on its own. The first result is for the Trek planet. The second result is this. Sadly, that's not any help at all.
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Old September 25 2012, 04:36 PM   #48
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

Well, whatever they were doing, Nero lost an ear tip during that time.[/QUOTE]

Probably ripped it off in frustration while waiting for Old Spock to appear.

[/QUOTE]

Mike Tyson traveled through time to give Nero boxing lessons.
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Old September 26 2012, 08:16 AM   #49
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

But not prison planets. And it's still the wrong Neutral Zone.
Dunno about either issue.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Carraya_system

It seems Romulans at least are perfectly okay with placing their prison planets in gross violation of Neutral Zone treaties.

And of course we previously found Klingons specifically in the Neutral Zone that bordered on Gamma Hydra - a condition pertaining specifically to the Romulan Neutral Zone in "The Deadly Years".

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Old September 26 2012, 05:24 PM   #50
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

Timo wrote: View Post
It seems Romulans at least are perfectly okay with placing their prison planets in gross violation of Neutral Zone treaties.
Where does it say that the planet was in the Romulan Neutral Zone? And even if that had been the case, how would a Romulan prison in the Romulan Neutral Zone equate to a Klingon prison planet in the Romulan Neutral Zone? And again, Nero's arrival point was in Federation space, not in any Neutral Zone, and there is no nearby star at Spock's arrival point. We know from these things that the arrival points are in different locations.
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Old September 27 2012, 02:25 AM   #51
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

So we're to just assume that the Nero and crew wasn't held by the Klingons? Was the Klingon takeover scene in the movie on the theatrical release when it was playing? I never got a chance to see it in theaters.
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Old September 27 2012, 03:15 AM   #52
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

los2188 wrote: View Post
So we're to just assume that the Nero and crew wasn't held by the Klingons? Was the Klingon takeover scene in the movie on the theatrical release when it was playing? I never got a chance to see it in theaters.
No, the Klingon takeover scene wasn't in the movie - I'm not sure that any of it was even filmed.

As to whether to assume Nero & crew were held (or not held) by Klingons: we're not told anything at all about what happens to them during the 25 years between the crippling of Narada by G. Kirk/USS Kelvin and their arrival at coordinates for intercepting OldSpock. You could assume almost anything and the movie won't contradict you. The version that's on your DVD is exactly the same one which was shown in theaters in May 2009 - no changes were made.
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Old September 27 2012, 09:24 AM   #53
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

Where does it say that the planet was in the Romulan Neutral Zone? And even if that had been the case, how would a Romulan prison in the Romulan Neutral Zone equate to a Klingon prison planet in the Romulan Neutral Zone?
Carraya on that map is on the wrong side of the RNZ, meaning prisons can be established in illegal places and go unnoticed for decades. (Indeed, one would assume that a prison that is also a mine would be founded at a location of opportunity, the prisoners secretly digging out somebody else's property at minimal cost...)

Nero's arrival point was in Federation space
Why would it be? Starfleet starships are seldom found in Federation space in the episodes and movies; generally they tend to survey the unknown.

not in any Neutral Zone
Starfleet ships normally don't go into those, no. But the Starfleet radio voice was worried about Robau being close to Klingons for some reason. Perhaps the badass skipper was indeed trespassing in the name of science?

and there is no nearby star at Spock's arrival point.
The VFX isn't specific enough to tell. But we do see the same fancy orange glow there in the "THREE YEARS LATER" intro to the Spock encounter.

we're not told anything at all about what happens to them during the 25 years
Exactly - except for Nero himself saying they "waited". Which could have involved glorious battles with Klingons, daring break-ins to the vaults of the Vulcan Science Academy, a failed romance with the Empress of Romulus, or twenty years of drug addiction followed by five of painful rehabilitation.

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Old September 28 2012, 05:15 AM   #54
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

Timo wrote:
(Indeed, one would assume that a prison that is also a mine would be founded at a location of opportunity, the prisoners secretly digging out somebody else's property at minimal cost...)
This does not imply that a prison that is also a mine would be more likely to be in enemy territory. Arguably the opposite is true. The minimal cost thing is true regardless of location. And where are we told that the prison planet referred to in STXI is also a mine?

Timo wrote:
But the Starfleet radio voice was worried about Robau being close to Klingons for some reason.
Like the script says, because they were close to the KNZ.

Timo wrote:
Perhaps the badass skipper was indeed trespassing in the name of science?
Then why was the Klingon suggestion shot down? And that would still be the wrong Neutral Zone.
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Old September 29 2012, 09:39 AM   #55
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

The setup could be identical to ST2: the RNZ could be teeming with Klingons, perhaps as the result of the oft-suggested but only vaguely verified alliance between them, perhaps simply because they were marauding. Having Romulans in the RNZ would be automatic cause for war; having Klingons there would be a risk to be assessed, and the Kelvin had found out that the Klingons were keeping their distance (albeit a minimal one) and Robau could probe further.

Klingons at the very spot of Nero's emergence and a battle with Klingons (somehow involving a Klingon prison planet, although AFAWK only in the relaying of the message) in connection with Spock's emergence is IMHO good support for the idea that the two emergences take place at one and the same location. That's a pretty intuitive and consistent thing to build speculation upon. And ST2 gives us the excuse to say that the presence of Klingons amusingly speaks of the RNZ, the location we want for the exploding star which supposedly was the point of departure for both time travelers. That latter bit's a fancy "out" from a poorly written story, but hey, it works. Sorta.

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Old September 29 2012, 08:15 PM   #56
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

Timo wrote: View Post
The setup could be identical to ST2: the RNZ could be teeming with Klingons
This is still wrong. ST2 involves the KNZ, not the RNZ. The same is true for the Kelvin sequence of STXI, if the script on IMSDB is any indication.

Timo wrote:
Klingons at the very spot of Nero's emergence and a battle with Klingons (somehow involving a Klingon prison planet, although AFAWK only in the relaying of the message) in connection with Spock's emergence is IMHO good support for the idea that the two emergences take place at one and the same location.
It's not intended to provide any such support. Though the plotline was essentially excised from the final film, we know that originally the Klingon prison planet was involved because Nero's people were supposed to be breaking out of it. Then they go to Spock's arrival point, a new location, because they're waiting for Spock. That's the connection between the Klingons and Spock's emergence. There is nothing more to it than that.

Timo wrote:
And ST2 gives us the excuse to say that the presence of Klingons amusingly speaks of the RNZ, the location we want for the exploding star which supposedly was the point of departure for both time travelers.
I'm not sure what this means, but the Hobus star was in Romulan space, not in the RNZ. Since this shows that the red matter black hole time travel depicted in the film not only moves the travelers through time but also dumps them in a location different from the one where they started, it shouldn't be a problem that Nero and Spock arrived in different locations.

Timo wrote:
That latter bit's a fancy "out" from a poorly written story
The story isn't poorly written and thus requires no "fancy out". It is the fanmade rewrite of part of the story that is poorly conceived.
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Old September 29 2012, 10:53 PM   #57
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

We could all just speculate that they got out on parole for good behavior. "Here are the keys to your ship. Drive safely." Lol.

It's an interesting question, but the answer didn't have much to do with the main storyline of the film, so I guess that's why they didn't include it. They had a lot to do in a very limited amount of time.
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Old September 30 2012, 05:32 AM   #58
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

Timo wrote: View Post
Perhaps Nero wears a prosthesis that itches, so he frequently removes it? Thus, any "early" scene of him showing an intact ear fails to be proof of his ear being intact "back then".

Timo Saloniemi
I heard from someone that there's a deleted scene where Ayel comes in to give Nero a report partway through the movie, and the camera cuts to Nero's back, and we see the prosthetic ear being lowered onto his head before he turns and asks Ayel to give his report.
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Old October 1 2012, 03:48 AM   #59
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

I'm not going to touch any comments about a deleted scene with a fifty foot pole. However, Matt Schaub of the Houston Texans got a chunk off of his ear torn off by a player on the Denver Broncos last week. Also many, many years ago, Mick Foley, aka Mankind, aka Dude Love, aka Cactus Jack had a piece of his ear torn off in a wrestling match against Vader. He went on to win the match, but never had a prosthetic ear.
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Old October 1 2012, 02:33 PM   #60
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

ST2 involves the KNZ, not the RNZ.
Never stated in the movie. But the NZ is the one next to Gamma Hydra, which according to "The Deadly Years" is the Romulan one.

The same is true for the Kelvin sequence of STXI, if the script on IMSDB is any indication.
Scripts never are.

Though the plotline was essentially excised from the final film, we know that originally the Klingon prison planet was involved because Nero's people were supposed to be breaking out of it. Then they go to Spock's arrival point, a new location, because they're waiting for Spock.
...And when they cut the scenes, they totally changed the film. So now Nero meets Spock first (the telltale storm in space is reported at "22 hours"), and only then fights the Klingons (an incident reported at "23 hours"). The jailbreak storyline is gone for good. Never happened, never could have happened, in the film we got.

the Hobus star was in Romulan space, not in the RNZ.
Not stated anywhere. Indeed, we have no authentic knowledge of the name of the star, either, but that's immaterial.

All the movie involves is "a star" that "explodes", "goes supernova", after which Spock saves the day by creating a black hole that "would absorb the exploding star", which he accomplishes by "extract[ing] the red matter and shoot[ing] it into the supernova". So Spock is saying that the black hole is where the supernova is (although not necessarily where the star was, because those are two different things after the supernova has been allowed to expand enough) - but never saying where this all takes place exactly. Nothing precludes the Romulan Neutral Zone, which is a short hop from the planet Romulus as per the "Balance of Terror" map.

I heard from someone that there's a deleted scene where Ayel comes in to give Nero a report partway through the movie, and the camera cuts to Nero's back, and we see the prosthetic ear being lowered onto his head before he turns and asks Ayel to give his report.


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