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Old September 21 2012, 02:40 AM   #76
foxhot
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Re: The Top 40 Male Film Lead Actors of all Time

''There sure are a lot of white guys on that list. But, that's Hollywood.''

The list, of course, is only half-complete. We have no Asians yet. Mifune was brought up earlier, which was a good point. If he doesn't make the cut for badassery, talent or cultural impact, what hope is there for Gedde Watanabe, Dennis Dun or Kiriyama from BATTLE ROYALE?

When all's listed and done I'll try to explain another criteria which led to my specific group of 40 finalists.

Today I gave GUNFIGHT AT THE OK CORRAL on DVD to an Asian friend who hadn't seen it for over 50 years. He, too, prefers Douglas to Lancaster. I do also, sheerly in terms of his entertainment factor. You have to appreciate a guy who survives a helicopter crash and a stroke both after his 70th birthday. He was easily the best part of last year's Oscars. But obviously I can't yet confirm nor deny he'll be in the top 20 yet. Incoming.....

20. Jaleel White
19. Victor Bannerjee
18. Jaye Davidson
17. Pedro Armendariz, Jr.
16. Bert Kwouk

I'm kidding, Harvey. But if Samuel L. Jackson were the only non-Caucasian in the entire 40, would that wound my stainless reputation for original quality?
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Old September 21 2012, 04:35 AM   #77
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Re: The Top 40 Male Film Lead Actors of all Time

Well, if it's solely a list of Hollywood actors, specifically leading men, you're not going to have many non-white people there. But if you're including foreign cinema, I'd say actors like Tony Leung and Chow Yun-Fat (just to name a couple) are worth a look, although the latter crashed and burned when he attempted to make it in the United States.

Any thought about including silent actors? I don't have a lot of knowledge of that area, except for comedy, which brings to mind Chaplin, Keaton, and Lloyd as good (if conventional) choices.
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Old September 21 2012, 05:37 AM   #78
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Re: The Top 40 Male Film Lead Actors of all Time

Burt Lancaster was sort of a "one-note" actor, but no more so than John Wayne. The man made about 100 movies and played the same guy about 90 times.

Both were more "movie stars" than "great actors" to me.
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Old September 21 2012, 01:31 PM   #79
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Re: The Top 40 Male Film Lead Actors of all Time

BennyRussel wrote: View Post
Burt Lancaster was sort of a "one-note" actor, but no more so than John Wayne. The man made about 100 movies and played the same guy about 90 times.

Both were more "movie stars" than "great actors" to me.
Lancaster was a much better actor than The Duke, IMHO. Sure, in his youth he excelled as the tough, athletic leading man. But look at his later career, starting even as early as 1958 with the Sweel Smell of Success or 1963's Elmer Gantry. There are entries like The Leopard, Judgment at Nuremberg, The Birdman of Alcatraz, Seven Days in May, Local Hero and Atlantic City.

Those are the performances of a Great Actor by any definition.
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Old September 21 2012, 08:06 PM   #80
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Re: The Top 40 Male Film Lead Actors of all Time

foxhot wrote: View Post
Brando has less stinkers than Burton, but Sinatra and Heston have less than Brando. Ergo cognito kumquat.
Your thread title indicates this thread is about actors and acting, not the quality or lack of quality of the top 40 actors' various film roles. Now it seems you are simply ranking the "top 40 actors" by the quality of their movies.

It might help if you made it clear that your only real criteria is movie quality rather than performance and acting ability (or the other criteria listed inyour original post). In fact, a discussion of the quality of these actors' best or most notable movies might actually spur a meaningful debate.
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Old September 21 2012, 11:07 PM   #81
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Re: The Top 40 Male Film Lead Actors of all Time

I doubt we could justify having movie quality as the ONLY deciding factor. Their PERFORMANCES in great movies are of course determining elements. But if we restricted it to actors who never had bad direction or gave weak performances, few besides James Dean or John Cazale would likely make the cut. (And for a valid example of great actors in an awful film, check out the DESPERATE HOURS remake from 1990 with Anthony Hopkins. Even Lindsay Crouse was bad!)

Some of my replies are intentionally flip when I justify one actor over or under another. My true favorites are mostly the final 17 and we'll see how well that goes over. But bringing up specific films, even bad ones, sounds like a good way to keep the debating flowing. There will be some explanations why I chose who I chose after all 40 are revealed.

Now for the real incomings....

40. Arnold Schwarzenegger
39. Spencer Tracy
38. Steve McQueen
37. Gary Cooper
36. Daniel Craig
35. Errol Flynn
34. Sean Penn
33. Richard Burton
32. Tom Hanks
31. Edward Norton
30. Paul Newman
29. Michael Caine
28. William Holden
27. Clive Owen
26. Samuel L. Jackson
25. Marlon Brando
24. Al Pacino
23. Charlton Heston
22. Burt Lancaster
21. Frank Sinatra
20. Tom Cruise
19. Clint Eastwood
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Old September 21 2012, 11:52 PM   #82
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Re: The Top 40 Male Film Lead Actors of all Time

foxhot wrote: View Post
I doubt we could justify having movie quality as the ONLY deciding factor.
But you are using the quality of their movies as the sole criteria to justify your rankings, at least that is the only thing you have mentioned in justifying the various positions of the actors you've chosen.
Some of my replies are intentionally flip when I justify one actor over or under another. My true favorites are mostly the final 17 and we'll see how well that goes over. But bringing up specific films, even bad ones, sounds like a good way to keep the debating flowing.
People who are participating in this thread are debating the quality of the actors (and where you have them ranked) and those actors abilities -- you are debating the quality of their movies.
There will be some explanations why I chose who I chose after all 40 are revealed.
This is the other thing that is making this exercise so silly. You have already (supposedly) listed the criteria you are using to rank these actors. Are you now implying that there are other "secret" criteria involved in your process? I would like to engage in a discussion about these actors but the whole thing seems like a joke to me (and that's not because you are being "flip").

Now, if you've been having a few cocktails as you write this stuff, thats okay. Just let us know so we can put it all into proper context.
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Old September 22 2012, 01:36 AM   #83
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Re: The Top 40 Male Film Lead Actors of all Time

'' Sole criteria?''

''People who are participating in this thread are debating the quality of the actors (and where you have them ranked) and those actors abilities -- you are debating the quality of their movies.''

What I'm more often than not doing is mentioning some of their standout roles---and on occasion their lesser roles----while responding to comments on specific actors. It's give-and-take depending on what's said about whom. I use the film comments to support WHY I ranked them higher. But since we already have five previously mentioned qualifications, most actors are listed to begin with because most have between 3-4 of these qualities.

Individual movies are not the criteria. A body of work often is. Many of these guys have longevity, among other factors.

My other rationale is only temporarily secret, and it's nothing earthshattering.....it involves additional specific films and statistical support. I think it better to save that for the end, in order to keep the topic going a few extra days after the list is done. It won't be a Kevin Spacey head-in-the-box routine, but it will reinforce my choices. To explain them now would give away the identities of the final 18, so na ga da. Not going to do it. Wouldn't be prudent. Don't drink either. Never touch it. Thousand points of light. Read my lips......
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Old September 22 2012, 11:01 AM   #84
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Re: The Top 40 Male Film Lead Actors of all Time

Not being one to think about who is my favorite actor, I will list 40 or so I have really enjoyed. (I am a Shakespeare geek, so lots from that line.)

Laurence Olivier.
James Mason.
Kenneth More.
John Hurt.
Fabrice Luchini.
John Cleese.
Trevor Howard.
Ralph Richardson.
Allan Rickman.
Richard Harris.
Stephen Fry.
Hugh Laurie.
Rowan Atkinson.
Denholm Elliot.
Curt Jurgens.
Robert Shaw.
Gérard Depardieu.
Daniel Auteuil.
Jean Rochefort.
John Cusack.
Nigel Hawthorne.
Michael Palin.
Gary Oldman.
Alec Guiness.
Sidney Poitier.
Peter Sellers.
Anthony Hopkins.
James Cosmo.
Patrick Stewart (his Sejanus was sublime!)
Sean Connery.
Kelsey Grammer.*
David Hyde Pierce.
Glen Ford.
Robert Mitchum.
Frank Sinatra.
Jackie Chan.
James Stewart.
Damian Lewis.
Ralph Fiennes.
Denholm Elliott.
Colin Firth.
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Old September 22 2012, 02:35 PM   #85
foxhot
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Re: The Top 40 Male Film Lead Actors of all Time

Well done. And if we were ranking the all-time best supporting actor performances in film ever (which I have elsewhere) the ultimate winner would be Alan Rickman for DIE HARD. He's not a lead except for sporadic films so I cannot include him in the 40. But the suporting runners-up'd be Harrison Ford, Richard Dreyfuss, Claude Rains and Jaye Davidson for STAR WARS, JAWS, MR. SMITH GOES TO WASHINGTON and THE CRYING GAME, respectively.

But.....who is this......Fabrice Luchini? I'm allergic to IMDB and Wikipedia at this moment, so assistance is required.
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Old September 22 2012, 03:06 PM   #86
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Re: The Top 40 Male Film Lead Actors of all Time

Eno wrote: View Post
Not being one to think about who is my favorite actor, I will list 40 or so I have really enjoyed. (I am a Shakespeare geek, so lots from that line.)

Kelsey Grammer.*
Hey, what does the * indicate?
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Old September 22 2012, 09:41 PM   #87
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Re: The Top 40 Male Film Lead Actors of all Time

Don't bring up ex-wife in TV interviews or he'll walk right out?
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Old September 22 2012, 10:05 PM   #88
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Re: The Top 40 Male Film Lead Actors of all Time

I would personally move Tom Hanks much higher up on that list. I think he's probably my favorite actor. I also think Harrison Ford belongs on the list.
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Old September 23 2012, 02:06 AM   #89
foxhot
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Re: The Top 40 Male Film Lead Actors of all Time

Hanks will be playing multiple roles in next month's CLOUD ATLAS directed by the Wachoski Siblings and Tom Twyker.

I think Ford had had a few late-career missteps, particularly turning down a key role in TRAFFIC which apparently went to Michael Douglas.

40. Arnold Schwarzenegger
39. Spencer Tracy
38. Steve McQueen
37. Gary Cooper
36. Daniel Craig
35. Errol Flynn
34. Sean Penn
33. Richard Burton
32. Tom Hanks
31. Edward Norton
30. Paul Newman
29. Michael Caine
28. William Holden
27. Clive Owen
26. Samuel L. Jackson
25. Marlon Brando
24. Al Pacino
23. Charlton Heston
22. Burt Lancaster
21. Frank Sinatra
20. Tom Cruise
19. Clint Eastwood
18. James Cagney
17. Gary Oldman
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Old September 23 2012, 12:46 PM   #90
foxhot
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Re: The Top 40 Male Film Lead Actors of all Time

Hmmm.

Strange.

Well, that's all right. Maybe they don't know who they are.

Commence injection eight.

40. Arnold Schwarzenegger
39. Spencer Tracy
38. Steve McQueen
37. Gary Cooper
36. Daniel Craig
35. Errol Flynn
34. Sean Penn
33. Richard Burton
32. Tom Hanks
31. Edward Norton
30. Paul Newman
29. Michael Caine
28. William Holden
27. Clive Owen
26. Samuel L. Jackson
25. Marlon Brando
24. Al Pacino
23. Charlton Heston
22. Burt Lancaster
21. Frank Sinatra
20. Tom Cruise
19. Clint Eastwood
18. James Cagney
17. Gary Oldman
16. Denzel Washington
15. Jack Nicholson
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