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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old September 14 2012, 07:26 AM   #16
JRoss
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Re: TNG two parters were better than TNG movies!

Thanks, forgot about Birthright. I actually did mention Time's Arrow.
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Old September 14 2012, 09:35 PM   #17
davejames
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Re: TNG two parters were better than TNG movies!

I've always been a big fan of Time's Arrow, what with the mystery behind Data's unearthed head, his interactions with Mark Twain, the fun of watching Picard and the rest in the 19th century, and the fairly creepy, life-force draining aliens.

Plus it was a nice change of pace from the usual Borg/Klingon/space battle-heavy finales we usually got.

I've just never understood the problem fans had with it.
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Old September 15 2012, 08:42 PM   #18
Mojochi
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Re: TNG two parters were better than TNG movies!

davejames wrote: View Post
I've just never understood the problem fans had with it.
It's kind of campy, but hey, it's not like it was the 1st or last time Star Trek was ever campy. I find it entertaining

Although, I have to imagine that Guinan would've had to flash some serious wealth around for her, a "woman of color", to be treated like a socialite in that era, even being as highly educated as she is
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Old September 15 2012, 10:52 PM   #19
NrobbieC
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Re: TNG two parters were better than TNG movies!

I disagree, well I half disagree sort of. First Contact is the best of anything TNG, and also the best Trek film - my opinion there will never change. Generations gives them a run for their money but I would more than likely say it's better than the two-parters but it really depends what I'm in the mood for. Insurrection and Nemesis were about on par with TNG standard.

So to answer your bias question why did they drop the ball...they didn't. They could've done better but they didn't really do worse.
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Old September 15 2012, 11:20 PM   #20
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Re: TNG two parters were better than TNG movies!

First Contact certainly was the best directed out of all the TNG films. Frakes did a hell of a job.

But the script was really, really dumb.

Someone else on this forum (Silversmok3) said it well:

"First Contact is like that girl at the bar who looks hot from across the room, but you get close and realize its actually Jabba the Hutt.At first the movie seems to make sense, then you think about its plot for a minute and the entire movie collapses on itself."

If you still think First Contact is the "best of anything TNG" after watching this, I don't know what to say:

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Old September 16 2012, 12:10 AM   #21
NrobbieC
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Re: TNG two parters were better than TNG movies!

Then you will not know what to say.
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Old September 16 2012, 12:59 AM   #22
Holdfast
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Re: TNG two parters were better than TNG movies!

BOBW is a great 2-parter and Chain of Command & Unification both have great PtIIs but both their PtIs are just OK. The opposite is true for Descent. Time's Arrow, Redemption, Birthright & Gambit are all watchable, but not outstanding.

As such, I don't think the movies have quite such stiff competition with just the 2-parters as they do versus the series as a whole.

I like Generations a lot more than most people (it has a lot of nice little touches throughout, a unique visual look and an interesting story theme despite admittedly imperfect execution) and think it easily exceeds most of the two parters. First Contact is a somewhat dumb but very well-executed action flick with a cool ending; I'd put it ahead of a lot of the two parters too. Insurrection is thoroughly average and Nemesis is dreadful by every measure I can think of.

That means I find two of the four TNG movies very enjoyable and one watchable. Out of the 16 episodes comprising the 8 series 2-parters I find 5-6 very enjoyable and vast majority of the rest to be watchable.

I'd definitely agree that the 2-parters have much more consistency than the movies, but going solely by my "very enjoyable" category, the movies actually come out slightly ahead percentage-wise. It's a real shame Nemesis was so awful & left such a bad taste in the mouth.

(PS I don't count Farpoint or AGT as 2-parters as they're more standalone double-length episodes rather than episodes designed as 2-parters. I really like both these two eps; if they're included in the 2-parters list, that would certainly be enough to decisively tip the scales in its favour.)
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Old September 16 2012, 01:23 AM   #23
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Re: TNG two parters were better than TNG movies!

Admittedly I haven't personally seen many of the TNG two-parters:im still working on my Deep Space 9 episodes.

That established, I can think of STANDARD LENGTH TNG episodes which are ahead of ALL of the movies in every respect.

I cite "Who Watches the Watchers" as my example. That episode succeeds where Nemesis, Insurrection, Generations, and First Contact failed-on the fundamentals of telling a good story.

That's the core foundation of Trek when its all said and done, namely the use of believable and identifiable characters using futuristic technology and their sheer wit to solve problems in a funny, entertaining and plausible story.

The movie making teams forgot about that when making the TNG features.They used caricatures of the complex TNG characters, stuffed them into stories a 10 year old would call stupid, and hoped the special effects would induce memory blackouts so the audience wouldn't remember the sorry script.

With the TV series, the writers couldn't afford to produce schlock at the season finale.I chalk up the quality difference to the fact that if the movies failed at the box office, no worries, Paramount would eventually re-make another Star Trek. So what if the movie writers produced Lucasfilm-grade schlock? Paramount would never abandon the franchise;worst case they'd just get someone else to make the next movie, so the only thing the Star Trek TNG creative time had to do was make their movie well enough to not get fired.

The TV show on the other hand was NOT guaranteed by any stretch.The studio wouldn't abandon Star Trek movies , but one bad TV season finale and the jigs up. Since the series could be cancelled by the studio at the end of a season, the writers and creative staff got their sh-t together for the TNG two parters;because it would be the bread lines for them if they put up schlock for a season finale.
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Old September 18 2012, 05:57 AM   #24
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Re: TNG two parters were better than TNG movies!

Dream wrote: View Post
I've been rewatching TNG recently and I've noticed how much I've enjoyed the two parters on the show. I thought some of the two parters were so much better than the movies.

The Best of Both Worlds was better than First Contact. Nothing in FC was as chilling as seeing Locutus for the first time. No lame Borg Queen yet.

Unification made better use of Spock compared to how Generations used Kirk. The show actually gave a better ending to Spock and we of course got the mind meld between Spock and Picard. GEN had a bridge falling on Kirk.

Redemption was the better movie about civil war compared to the rebellion in Insurrection. Redemption was a huge story about the Klingon Empire with possible huge consequences for the galaxy if the Duras family had won. Insurrection had the crew defending a bunch of unlikable space hippies.

All Good Things was a better finale for the crew than Nemesis! No explanation needed.

Why do you guys think? Do you agree? Why did they drop the ball so much on the movies when they were doing so much better on the show?
much as I love Best of Both Worlds, First Contact just edges it for me, just had a more epic feel to it as much as anything, and the added time travel element I really liked.

agree with the others, though I liked all the TNG films to a point, even Nemesis I enjoyed till the ending.
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Old September 18 2012, 12:48 PM   #25
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Re: TNG two parters were better than TNG movies!

Meh, I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon of TNG movie-hate, but I can say that I thoroughly enjoy almost all the TNG two-parters.
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Old September 18 2012, 05:50 PM   #26
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Re: TNG two parters were better than TNG movies!

Birthright was a kokenbalz episode for sure! Man i watched this last night: does your hair "grow"! It was so cheesbally!
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Old September 18 2012, 10:04 PM   #27
Rarewolf
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Re: TNG two parters were better than TNG movies!

Silversmok3 wrote: View Post
The TV show on the other hand was NOT guaranteed by any stretch.The studio wouldn't abandon Star Trek movies , but one bad TV season finale and the jigs up. Since the series could be cancelled by the studio at the end of a season, the writers and creative staff got their sh-t together for the TNG two parters;because it would be the bread lines for them if they put up schlock for a season finale.
I don't think they would have based such a decision on a single episode. Fire the producers, replace the cast for the 2nd half sure, wouldn't put that past them, but they still would have resolved it. A luxury many shows axed on a cliffhanger don't get.

IIRC correctly Season 5 was never supposed to end on a cliffhanger, but then people thought with DS9 starting up TNG was ending. And season 6 I don't think everyone was under contract for season 7 at the time.

I find the movies easier to sit back and enjoy. Maybe because they are on TV more often.

They did abandon the movies, as far as TNG was concerned.
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Old September 18 2012, 10:39 PM   #28
Mott the barber
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Re: TNG two parters were better than TNG movies!

Holdfast wrote: View Post
BOBW is a great 2-parter and Chain of Command & Unification both have great PtIIs but both their PtIs are just OK. The opposite is true for Descent. Time's Arrow, Redemption, Birthright & Gambit are all watchable, but not outstanding.

As such, I don't think the movies have quite such stiff competition with just the 2-parters as they do versus the series as a whole.

I like Generations a lot more than most people (it has a lot of nice little touches throughout, a unique visual look and an interesting story theme despite admittedly imperfect execution) and think it easily exceeds most of the two parters. First Contact is a somewhat dumb but very well-executed action flick with a cool ending; I'd put it ahead of a lot of the two parters too. Insurrection is thoroughly average and Nemesis is dreadful by every measure I can think of.

That means I find two of the four TNG movies very enjoyable and one watchable. Out of the 16 episodes comprising the 8 series 2-parters I find 5-6 very enjoyable and vast majority of the rest to be watchable.

I'd definitely agree that the 2-parters have much more consistency than the movies, but going solely by my "very enjoyable" category, the movies actually come out slightly ahead percentage-wise. It's a real shame Nemesis was so awful & left such a bad taste in the mouth.

(PS I don't count Farpoint or AGT as 2-parters as they're more standalone double-length episodes rather than episodes designed as 2-parters. I really like both these two eps; if they're included in the 2-parters list, that would certainly be enough to decisively tip the scales in its favour.)
I'm with ya on Generations. Yes there are huge plot holes, but I think it's actually my favorite of the TNG movies because it feels the most like (and takes the best parts of) the series and translates it to the big screen.
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Old September 18 2012, 10:53 PM   #29
CaptainStoner
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Re: TNG two parters were better than TNG movies!

I have a soft spot for the TNG films, even INS in many places. I wish those films could have been made with 1/3 to 1/2 less action sequences. Its been analyzed a zillion times, but ultimately the TNG films did not play to their true strengths - and fuck off the Ent-D looked *nice* on the big screen. Certainly better than that nu-enterprise with sausages for nacelles...

*directed at no one in particular
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Old September 18 2012, 11:19 PM   #30
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Re: TNG two parters were better than TNG movies!

With the movies I've always enjoyed Generations (and the Shatner books that were spun-off from it), along with First Contact and Nemesis.

As for the two part episodes, Birthright, even as a kid I preferred the Data storyline/DS9 crossover, while Worf's storyline was rather tedious and boring; the producers had a good thing going in Part 1, but then they really dropped the ball in Part 2 with just making it a Worf story and no follow-up to Data's story in Part 1. I remember watching Part 1 on tape the morning after CHRO had aired it (I remember that I was really, really sick that weekend so I had gone to bed before the episode aired), and the following weekend I tuned in, all excited too see what would happen to Data, but instead we got the stupid Worf storyline.
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