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Old April 3 2014, 11:27 PM   #106
JarodRussell
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

Loken wrote: View Post
The bigger issue is the lack of accountability and transparency in fan film Kickstarters. Where does all the money go? There is currently zero transparency or accountability and THIS more than anything will cause the other shoe to drop.

If anyone has checked out the Axanar Kickstarter, we were very specific what we were spending the money on. We are providing the operating budget for "Prelude to Axanar" to our donors. And frankly, a lot of donors thanked us for that. They are owed that level of information.

Without casting dispersions, when "Renegades" raises $ 374,000 and is about to start another Kickstarter/Indigogo for MORE money, that is the type of thing that will cause CBS to sit up and take notice. Where is all that money going? (And Renegades Producer Sky Conway and I discussed this very thing this am on a call). The question is what will set CBS off? Is it raising a certain $ amount, or is it customers complaining about something a production does?

This is not an endless well that we can just tap into anytime. Let me tell you CBS IS looking at these fund raisers and the lack of accountability and transparency is what is going to screw us all.

Alec
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/s...es-vfx-funding

Seems pretty transparent to me. The first raiser was about production, the second one is about visual effects.
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Old April 4 2014, 02:15 AM   #107
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

Loken wrote: View Post
Let me tell you CBS IS looking at these fund raisers and the lack of accountability and transparency is what is going to screw us all.
Like I said, the IRS is taking care of that for them.

As far as folks having a right to control their own property...ABC just shut down a "Dark Shadows" fan film based on the original series.
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Old April 4 2014, 02:23 AM   #108
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

andriech wrote: View Post
As far as folks having a right to control their own property...ABC just shut down a "Dark Shadows" fan film based on the original series.
Do you have a link handy for that?
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Old April 4 2014, 03:51 AM   #109
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

Sorry, I don't. I got it directly from the production team as I was considering doing costuming for them. I will ask if anything is posted on line next time I get to chat with any of them.
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Old April 4 2014, 04:30 AM   #110
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

andriech wrote: View Post

As far as folks having a right to control their own property...ABC just shut down a "Dark Shadows" fan film based on the original series.
Are you talking about the production that was being done in Austin, Texas a few years ago? My friend John Carroll directed the first episode. It was called Dark Shadows: The Web Series. There was only one episode ever put online, but it was taken down after they were asked to remove it. Only a trailer remains online, which can bee seen here: https://vimeo.com/16334013

My understanding is that it wasn't ABC, but the Dan Curtis estate that asked them to take the video down.
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Old April 4 2014, 04:31 AM   #111
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

I had the impression that Kickstarter provides the IRS with paperwork showing how much money the project originator raised. If the project originator fails to prove that the funds were used in production, tax implications would arise.

If I am not mistaken, the guy behind No Film School raised some funds for a sports movie and failed to film in the year in which he raised funds. Thus he lost a decent chunk of his Kickstarter funds to taxes. It might be someone else, but I think it was the No Film School guy.

Alec, as you make your way through the process, any clarification you can give as to IRS/tax implications would be greatly appreciated. You are busy now so I'll remind you later once you wrap on Axanar.

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Old April 4 2014, 05:17 AM   #112
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

Captain Atkin wrote: View Post
andriech wrote: View Post

As far as folks having a right to control their own property...ABC just shut down a "Dark Shadows" fan film based on the original series.
Are you talking about the production that was being done in Austin, Texas a few years ago? My friend John Carroll directed the first episode. It was called Dark Shadows: The Web Series. There was only one episode ever put online, but it was taken down after they were asked to remove it. Only a trailer remains online, which can bee seen here: https://vimeo.com/16334013

My understanding is that it wasn't ABC, but the Dan Curtis estate that asked them to take the video down.
No, it was a new one in development. And you are right, I talked to one of my contacts and it was DC estate that put the kybosh on it. However, they also said there is a current audio production that's licensed, so that may be way both the old one and the new one were shut down. There are no links as they hadn't gone "public" yet. If you search the DS forums you may find references to it being in development though.
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Old April 4 2014, 05:27 AM   #113
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

Duane wrote: View Post
Alec, as you make your way through the process, any clarification you can give as to IRS/tax implications would be greatly appreciated. You are busy now so I'll remind you later once you wrap on Axanar.

Duane
As far as the Phase II 2012 Indiegogo, the IRS isn't asking to see that a finished product exists. They are asking for documentation that the money was spent on "production" costs, and are demanding very specific proof. Such as, shooting schedules/call sheets that prove someone was needed to "act" and that their plane ticket was not for a "personal visit". They are also really wishing that some of it was spent for salaries or SAG insurance plans because they act like they are just getting started and are eager to follow the money everywhere it went. (It wasn't in this case, fortunately.)

I haven't really kept up with crowdfunding of all the various groups, but ONE of the issues is that people that collected money in 2013 had better have spent it all in 2013. They'll be required to prove it on this years returns. It would be interesting to know if, say, a production like Renegades had money left over going into 2014 and how both the IRS and CBS reacts to that. (STC had one in 2013 too, right?)
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Old April 4 2014, 02:01 PM   #114
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Loken wrote: View Post
The bigger issue is the lack of accountability and transparency in fan film Kickstarters. Where does all the money go? There is currently zero transparency or accountability and THIS more than anything will cause the other shoe to drop.

If anyone has checked out the Axanar Kickstarter, we were very specific what we were spending the money on. We are providing the operating budget for "Prelude to Axanar" to our donors. And frankly, a lot of donors thanked us for that. They are owed that level of information.

Without casting dispersions, when "Renegades" raises $ 374,000 and is about to start another Kickstarter/Indigogo for MORE money, that is the type of thing that will cause CBS to sit up and take notice. Where is all that money going? (And Renegades Producer Sky Conway and I discussed this very thing this am on a call). The question is what will set CBS off? Is it raising a certain $ amount, or is it customers complaining about something a production does?

This is not an endless well that we can just tap into anytime. Let me tell you CBS IS looking at these fund raisers and the lack of accountability and transparency is what is going to screw us all.

Alec
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/s...es-vfx-funding

Seems pretty transparent to me. The first raiser was about production, the second one is about visual effects.
This is one is being put on by the VFX teams. Some of them do the VFX work in other fans films (Tobais for Phase II, Axanar, etc..). So in a way, enhancements to their systems will help the VFX quality of other fans films as well that they also do work for.
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Old April 4 2014, 02:44 PM   #115
JarodRussell
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

Tom wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Loken wrote: View Post
The bigger issue is the lack of accountability and transparency in fan film Kickstarters. Where does all the money go? There is currently zero transparency or accountability and THIS more than anything will cause the other shoe to drop.

If anyone has checked out the Axanar Kickstarter, we were very specific what we were spending the money on. We are providing the operating budget for "Prelude to Axanar" to our donors. And frankly, a lot of donors thanked us for that. They are owed that level of information.

Without casting dispersions, when "Renegades" raises $ 374,000 and is about to start another Kickstarter/Indigogo for MORE money, that is the type of thing that will cause CBS to sit up and take notice. Where is all that money going? (And Renegades Producer Sky Conway and I discussed this very thing this am on a call). The question is what will set CBS off? Is it raising a certain $ amount, or is it customers complaining about something a production does?

This is not an endless well that we can just tap into anytime. Let me tell you CBS IS looking at these fund raisers and the lack of accountability and transparency is what is going to screw us all.

Alec
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/s...es-vfx-funding

Seems pretty transparent to me. The first raiser was about production, the second one is about visual effects.
This is one is being put on by the VFX teams. Some of them do the VFX work in other fans films (Tobais for Phase II, Axanar, etc..). So in a way, enhancements to their systems will help the VFX quality of other fans films as well that they also do work for.
That's always the case. Do you think ILM throws everything they bought away when they do a new film? No, they keep most of the hardware and software they invested in and use it in other productions.

When the production team buys cameras and microphones and whatever (heck, printing paper for scripts) from the money of a kickstarter fundraiser, they will keep them for the next film they do as well.

Last edited by JarodRussell; April 4 2014 at 03:04 PM.
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Old April 7 2014, 03:07 PM   #116
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

On a related note, Sony Pictures managed to take down an INDEPENDENT production by claiming coypright infringement.

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/ideas-com...ube-98182.html
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Old April 7 2014, 05:34 PM   #117
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
On a related note, Sony Pictures managed to take down an INDEPENDENT production by claiming coypright infringement.

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/ideas-com...ube-98182.html
Yeah, that was so much bullshit on Sony's part. Damn DMCA and Google Content-ID system are a fucking nightmare for up-and-comers.
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Old April 7 2014, 06:56 PM   #118
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
On a related note, Sony Pictures managed to take down an INDEPENDENT production by claiming coypright infringement.

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/ideas-com...ube-98182.html
I wouldn't call this a related note at all. The circumstances there don't appear to involve a party asserting rights in relation to intellectual property that they actually own. Instead, the circumstances appear to involve a "faulty DMCA take-down request". If the facts are as represented in the article and this were somehow to see the inside of a courtroom, Sony would have no case at all.
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Old April 7 2014, 07:39 PM   #119
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

I actually posted that in the wrong thread, whoopsey.
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Old May 23 2014, 09:22 PM   #120
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

Edit: Direct link to Kickstarter fundraiser removed.

I'm curious as to why a fan film cannot have a 'Paypal' donation account, but other fan films can have a 'Kick-Starter' donation account? What is the difference?

Last edited by GSchnitzer; May 24 2014 at 06:53 PM. Reason: Kickstarter link removed
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