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Fan Productions Creating our own Trek canon!

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Old May 26 2014, 04:10 AM   #136
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

Isn't it in CBS's best interest not to provide a guidelines or guidance as to what is and isn't allowed? Let's them eat their cake and have it to: They can drop the hammer at any time on anyone or everyone and say "well we never approved of it anyway".
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Old May 26 2014, 05:18 AM   #137
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Isn't it in CBS's best interest not to provide a guidelines or guidance as to what is and isn't allowed? Let's them eat their cake and have it to: They can drop the hammer at any time on anyone or everyone and say "well we never approved of it anyway".
Yep. Exactly. If they say "this is okay" then they've basically made a contract of sorts.
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Old May 26 2014, 02:13 PM   #138
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Isn't it in CBS's best interest not to provide a guidelines or guidance as to what is and isn't allowed? Let's them eat their cake and have it to: They can drop the hammer at any time on anyone or everyone and say "well we never approved of it anyway".
Yes. That's why we are constantly aware that this can all come crashing down at any minute. It also makes any planning for the future difficult.

We sink time, talent, resources, and plain ol' cash into these projects fully aware that we are living on the bubble.
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Old June 4 2014, 12:08 PM   #139
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Isn't it in CBS's best interest not to provide a guidelines or guidance as to what is and isn't allowed? Let's them eat their cake and have it to: They can drop the hammer at any time on anyone or everyone and say "well we never approved of it anyway".
Yes. That's why we are constantly aware that this can all come crashing down at any minute. It also makes any planning for the future difficult.

We sink time, talent, resources, and plain ol' cash into these projects fully aware that we are living on the bubble.
That must be terrifying.

I'm behind you guys, though. Love your work and was happy to back the Kickstarter.

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Old June 4 2014, 02:36 PM   #140
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

AustNerevar wrote: View Post
GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Isn't it in CBS's best interest not to provide a guidelines or guidance as to what is and isn't allowed? Let's them eat their cake and have it to: They can drop the hammer at any time on anyone or everyone and say "well we never approved of it anyway".
Yes. That's why we are constantly aware that this can all come crashing down at any minute. It also makes any planning for the future difficult.

We sink time, talent, resources, and plain ol' cash into these projects fully aware that we are living on the bubble.
That must be terrifying.

I'm behind you guys, though. Love your work and was happy to back the Kickstarter.
"Terrifying" might not be the best word. People in California live with the daily knowledge that they could be hit by the "big one" (earthquake) at any time, people in Seattle live in the shadow of Mt. Rainier which is classified as an "active" volcano. Everyone knows about those things, but no one is terrified. Like the residents of those cities those of us who are engaged in fan productions know that we could have the plug pulled on us at any time. That's hardly as serious as existential threats from Mother Nature and I doubt anyone on the fan productions side is losing any sleep over it, even though it's something we should be aware of.
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Old June 14 2014, 03:39 AM   #141
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

USS Intrepid wrote: View Post
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I think just how far folks will go before they receive a 'cease and desist' letter is yet to be determined. How much further after that they have to go before they are formally served and sued is yet another issue.

So many fan films have been doing things that we thought were 'over the line' lately, including one rumored to have ignored a cease and desist letter with no consequences, that it's hard to know anything right now.

Throw into the mix the franchise copyright decision depriving Superman of sole use of what I would have thought were CLEARLY trademarks, even without the whole franchise copyright thing...

Well, it's getting very vague.

Copyright, both common law and code law, is not forever, and franchise copyright is common law, with no code law.

I was told in a personal phone call I had with one of the principles of Star Trek: Equinox that they claim to have talked extensively with CBS legal about exactly what they are doing. While most of the board members here do not believe that this is a pilot for a strait-to-DVD limited series ... well, that's what they claim. They do say they will ALSO be doing a fan film based on the same overall concept which they will be allowed to release if CBS passes on the series. It's all being shot with union rules. Obviously, however, CBS has not elected to provide funding.

That's the only independent Star Trek Film which I know which seems to be selling stuff to raise money. I have not spoken with them since their Kickstarter failed and they started with this selling stuff business. Did they clear this with CBS? Who knows? Was what they told me true? I have no clue. I listen and report.
I was making a point of not naming names.

Either way, I think this is way too close to the line, and the people in question should consider a rethink.
Last I knew, Farragut Films also had a shop up selling Farragut merchandise to help fund the production. They've had it up for years and no one has said anything. (I'm assuming, because it's still up.) Don't they sell stuff at the Farragut Fest as well?
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Old June 14 2014, 03:45 AM   #142
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Isn't it in CBS's best interest not to provide a guidelines or guidance as to what is and isn't allowed? Let's them eat their cake and have it to: They can drop the hammer at any time on anyone or everyone and say "well we never approved of it anyway".
They actually have provided guidelines to almost every fanfilm individually. The ones they gave to us at Phase II while I was involved are posted at the beginning of this thread. Speaking to other fanfilms at the time, each one seems to have gotten a modified version of them...and they didn't all match. For instance, on fanfilm I am aware of was told they could not sell uniforms or anything else to fund the project. Phase II was not told that at all, and folks at Farragut and Excalibur are selling uniforms etc so it seems they weren't told that either.

So, yes, it's better for CBS to not issue a public document for everyone to follow. That way, at any time, they can suddenly declare that their licenses are being violated and shut an action or a production down.
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Old June 14 2014, 10:34 AM   #143
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

andriech wrote: View Post
Last I knew, Farragut Films also had a shop up selling Farragut merchandise to help fund the production. They've had it up for years and no one has said anything. (I'm assuming, because it's still up.) Don't they sell stuff at the Farragut Fest as well?
I'd completely forgotten about that, probably because it's something they don't really go out of their way to advertise. That said, they don't appear to be selling anything explicitly copyrighted, so maybe CBS is more willing to turn a blind eye.

I remain uncomfortable with the concept.
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Old June 14 2014, 07:48 PM   #144
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

andriech wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Isn't it in CBS's best interest not to provide a guidelines or guidance as to what is and isn't allowed? Let's them eat their cake and have it to: They can drop the hammer at any time on anyone or everyone and say "well we never approved of it anyway".
They actually have provided guidelines to almost every fanfilm individually. The ones they gave to us at Phase II while I was involved are posted at the beginning of this thread. Speaking to other fanfilms at the time, each one seems to have gotten a modified version of them...and they didn't all match. For instance, on fanfilm I am aware of was told they could not sell uniforms or anything else to fund the project. Phase II was not told that at all, and folks at Farragut and Excalibur are selling uniforms etc so it seems they weren't told that either.

So, yes, it's better for CBS to not issue a public document for everyone to follow. That way, at any time, they can suddenly declare that their licenses are being violated and shut an action or a production down.
Seems a bit...dangerous (to use the wrong word) to be doing that. Is it one single contact person cherry picking who can do what and how or a dept where you've got multi people giving differing opinions?

At some point, couldn't it come back as "well you let "A" do it so we assumed it was allowed." or "If "B" can do it, then why can't "C" and "D" do it too?"

Wouldn't the smarter approach be to simply either shut it all down, or say "Don't make money, period, don't care what it's for or what you're selling, don't sell, don't charge subscriptions, don't run ads, don't make a single cent or your ass is grass."

It's fascinating (no pun intended) cause so much of what goes on behind the scenes in fan-films (personal drama aside) is a good primer for folks looking to get into online content creation; whether it's original or fan content. Sort of "YMMV, but he's some of the BS you could get yourself into."
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Old June 14 2014, 09:46 PM   #145
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

Project: Potemkin's directives from CBS are no doubt due to the fact that our series is set in the post-Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country time-frame rather than the original series or Modern Trek time frame. Even though we rarely use them, I noted with interest that Anovos recently came out with the "monster maroons" from our time frame: http://www.anovos.com/collections/st...-wrath-of-khan
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Old June 15 2014, 01:55 AM   #146
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Re: CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Seems a bit...dangerous (to use the wrong word) to be doing that. Is it one single contact person cherry picking who can do what and how or a dept where you've got multi people giving differing opinions?
From contact with other fanfilms, it's one person. The head of CBS legal in New York. When that person came on board a couple years ago, they went through every fanfilm one at a time, reviewed what they were doing, and sent them a message.

Before this new person came on board there really was no one keeping track of what fan films were doing. Phase II often got contacted by various people out in LA before that, but usually by people that wanted to somehow license the show in some form or another. (such as including the episodes as bonus features on licensed DVDs). Though they did get a C&D way back for "Come What May" when you could get a free DVD copy of it if you donated to the Shuttle charity. ("we don't want no dead astronaughts kids making money off Star Trek!" - or something to that effect.)


SeerSGB wrote: View Post
At some point, couldn't it come back as "well you let "A" do it so we assumed it was allowed." or "If "B" can do it, then why can't "C" and "D" do it too?"

Wouldn't the smarter approach be to simply either shut it all down, or say "Don't make money, period, don't care what it's for or what you're selling, don't sell, don't charge subscriptions, don't run ads, don't make a single cent or your ass is grass."
What seems to be "simpler" and "makes most sense" is not necessarily what CBS wants to do at this point in time. And, for the record, they HAVE said the second paragraph. They just aren't ENFORCING it at this point in time.

What or when or why they are waiting to enforce it can only be guessed at.
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