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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old September 8 2012, 06:29 PM   #16
NrobbieC
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Re: Uss achilles from Voyager Fleet??

I prefer the Emissary variant to the Avenger personally.
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Old September 10 2012, 06:55 PM   #17
Karnbeln
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Re: Uss achilles from Voyager Fleet??

I picture something much more industrial than we usually see from the Federation - basically a factory in space. It's overall configuration would be a long box. The ship would be as wide as it could be while still reasonably being able to generate a slipstream corridor, and it would be about 4/5ths as tall. It would then be rather long to compensate for it its necessary volume, perhaps 6 times as long as it is tall. The port and starboard sides would be rounded into arcs, as if it was designed to just barely fit in the corridor (kind of like a Puddle Jumper in Stargate Atlantis). The warp nacelles would be on the top and bottom of the ship, hugging relatively close so as to fit within the circumference of the circle that would be formed by the sides of the ship if the arcs were to be extended to a full 360 degrees. The top and bottom hulls of Achilles contain large, square doors that would open to reveal empty space where the industrial replicators could create large parts for the ships, such as hull plating or even nacelles (when I originally pictured it I thought they might be large enough for a single ship to squeeze in, like a moving space dock, but Mage's comment upthread regarding it not being big enough to fit a ship inside it debunks that). One of these ports could also house the fighters.

Overall what appears in my head would fit visually more with the Stargate universe than the Star Trek universe, but then again Achilles isn't exactly a traditional Federation vessel - I figure a more industrial look, prettied up in Federation colors, is perfectly plausible (though I'm sure there is some description of Achilles that contradicts everything I've imagined, beyond even the aforementioned dimensions).
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Old September 12 2012, 01:07 AM   #18
tomswift2002
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Re: Uss achilles from Voyager Fleet??

I would think that a "boxed-shaped" vessel might pose some problems in terms of speed. Sure there's no wind in space, but look at a transport truck versus a car on the road. A tractor trailer isn't as aerodynamic as a car, and to counter for that they even put that slope attachment on the top of the cab to try to counter the wind against the truck. I would think Starfleet would need something that was more aerodynamic than just a big box.

But for something to house a Vesta you'd need something like that giant Enterprise from the DS9 Millenium trilogy.
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Old September 12 2012, 01:55 AM   #19
Christopher
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Re: Uss achilles from Voyager Fleet??

But there's no air in space either, so aerodynamics is irrelevant. In vacuum, a box shape will travel just as well as a dart shape. The interplanetary or interstellar medium is far too tenuous to generate any kind of drag due to friction (although its interaction with the magnetic fields of the nacelles' Bussard collectors would create drag).
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Old September 22 2012, 02:18 AM   #20
tomswift2002
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Re: Uss achilles from Voyager Fleet??

Christopher wrote: View Post
But there's no air in space either, so aerodynamics is irrelevant. In vacuum, a box shape will travel just as well as a dart shape. The interplanetary or interstellar medium is far too tenuous to generate any kind of drag due to friction (although its interaction with the magnetic fields of the nacelles' Bussard collectors would create drag).
But they would need something a lot more aerodynamic than a big box to fly in a slipstream tunnel! So far the oldest class that we've seen retrofitted with slipstream has been the Intrepid's. Not even the Sovereign-class ships, even with their oblong saucers and sleek engineering sections, have slip-stream capabilities. Obviously the Enterprise-E doesn't have the same aerodynamics as a Voyager (not too mention, but it seems that after Generations, Starfleet has kind of taken the approach of designing new ships with the ability, either together or seperate, too be operate in planetary atmosphere's and even survive a lot better than the Enterprise-D's saucer in an emergency).
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Old September 22 2012, 02:56 AM   #21
Christopher
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Re: Uss achilles from Voyager Fleet??

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
But they would need something a lot more aerodynamic than a big box to fly in a slipstream tunnel!
No, they wouldn't. You're completely misunderstanding the principle, perhaps because you're taking the name "slipstream" too literally. Quantum slipstream ships need to be relatively narrow, but beyond that, the specifics of shape are irrelevant. Something shaped like a log would work just as well as something shaped like a dart, as long as they were both narrow enough to fit in the conduit.


Not even the Sovereign-class ships, even with their oblong saucers and sleek engineering sections, have slip-stream capabilities.
That's not about "aerodynamics," it's simply about how wide the ship is. A wider ship would need a wider slipstream conduit to get through, and the wider the conduit, the more power it takes and the harder it is to stabilize. You were on the right track when you talked in terms of going through a tunnel. It's purely a matter of clearance.

More importantly, it's about the novel editors not wanting the E-E to be slipstream-equipped at this point. The rest is just a handwave to justify that decision.
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Old September 23 2012, 12:09 PM   #22
Clawhammer
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Re: Uss achilles from Voyager Fleet??

I discussed this with Kirsten a bit, the ship had to be long to house everything, but not too wide to make Slipstream impossible. The Mulciber class has rather classic "cargo freighter" layout. Probably Achilles is the only 1 of it's class that has been retrofitted with QSD systems and oversized nacelles.

What I wrote to Kirsten in 2010:
Achilles:
I'm excited about the Achilles having a "carrier" role also. I guess the shape of the Achilles would be more boxy with a lot of bay doors on both sides. Maybe something along the lines of the Karemman freighter from an episode of DS9: practical while still having some kind of "slipstream narrow" appearance. I'm pretty sure that the current canon ships do not meet up to the required specs and internal volume. So this probably would become a new design. In size I'm thinking about 800 to 1000 meters.
I agree that the Achilles was already in service before project Full Circle. It seems impossible to plan, construct and test such a large & critical ship in such a short period of time. I changed the registry number into NCC-77024 to reflect this.

For me the order of construction/design is now:
Demeter
Voyager
Achilles
Galen

Final goal is to have a poster (a massive poster) with the entire fleet on it.

Getting Vesta class in Star Trek Online took a lot of energy and I'm currently working on a non Trek ship, but will return to Demeter asap.
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Old September 23 2012, 03:23 PM   #23
Fer
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Re: Uss achilles from Voyager Fleet??

Clawhammer wrote: View Post
Final goal is to have a poster (a massive poster) with the entire fleet on it.
I eagerly await it with baited breath. Thanks for all your work!
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Old September 24 2012, 04:31 PM   #24
MatthiasRussell
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Re: Uss achilles from Voyager Fleet??

Funny how some people have pictured the Achilles based upon STO designs. I've pictured it as looking like the STO Jupiter class (which I think looks like a trigger fish) but not so big.
http://www.stowiki.org/Federation_Dreadnought
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Old September 28 2012, 01:54 PM   #25
Markonian
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Re: Uss achilles from Voyager Fleet??

I find the Jupiter-class dreadnought... not aesthetically pleasing. Also, it clashes with the novel description, which says: elongated, triangular saucer and two upswept nacelles.

Even in-game, the Jupiter-class dreadnoughts has been replaced by Galaxy-X-class dreadnoughts, mostly, e.g. USS Victory.
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