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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old January 31 2014, 08:18 AM   #2116
MakeshiftPython
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

trevanian wrote: View Post
Another prob on occasion (and I remember this with guest ships, like the vessel in THE WOUNDED) is when they'd either speed up a shot in post or record it at 30fps instead of 24 (I think that was a Dan Curry thing, never Legato.) The vessel takes on that Telenovela look that screamed (and to me still screams) 'video/cg' ... in essence it is taking a decent model shot and making it look like a cartoon
The 30fps thing always bugged me too, and it really fooled me into thinking that those shots were done on video for a long time. Makes me glad that the remastering team have been converting those Dan Curry shots into 24fps so that they at least don't stick out like a sore thumb. Did Dan Curry ever explain why he preferred shooting his stuff on 30fps?
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Old January 31 2014, 05:16 PM   #2117
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

I never interviewed Curry, but for GENERATIONS, I had two very lengthy interviews with Ronald Moore (VFX Moore, not writ/prod Moore) where we covered lots of TNG TV stuff as well as the feature (there was some thought to doing a 'storyboard to completed shot' style book on the VFX, which Curry had been pursuing for awhile, but when Moore approached him again, there was some reason he didn't want to go ahead.)

I don't remember now if Moore was Curry's VFX coordinator or Legato's, but the 30fps thing came up a couple times, and it seemed that it was an expediency thing, like you could get it through post faster for some reason.

Something that hasn't come up very often about TNG VFX is that they were budgeted for only a tiny fraction of each ep's budget. For the first couple of years, I think the pattern was somewhere around 70,000 per ep (out of a budget that was 1.2 mil or thereabouts), which if you adjust for inflation means they may have been doing the work for less than TOS in some instances. (Also kinda makes you wonder where the money went if they were spending over 1.1 mil on the non-vfx aspects.)

Several years back I tried to find a way to get all those old transcripts from GEN and FC off the 3.5" floppies, but since it was done in a weird file format (I used one of those electronic typewriter thingies rather than a computer almost up till the end of the century), I couldn't salvage anything. I have maybe a thousand cut words from the GEN article on hard copy, but nothing relevant to this issue, unfortunately.
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Old January 31 2014, 06:48 PM   #2118
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Cast salaries, storage costs, set construction, and lots of Hollywood accounting.

I wonder what the budget per episode was by the 7th season. I'm sure guys like Patrick Stewart were making more than 100K per episode.
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Old February 4 2014, 09:58 PM   #2119
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

If I missed it in this thread, had there been any discussion of what of the Phase II test footage is included in this set? I read that it was in the "Making It So" segment. Anyone remember how much they showed?

trevanian wrote: View Post
Several years back I tried to find a way to get all those old transcripts from GEN and FC off the 3.5" floppies, but since it was done in a weird file format (I used one of those electronic typewriter thingies rather than a computer almost up till the end of the century), I couldn't salvage anything. I have maybe a thousand cut words from the GEN article on hard copy, but nothing relevant to this issue, unfortunately.
What format or which word processor type? There are services which will recover that data.

Also, re the 6-footer, I was surprised to learn that ILM had built in a nacelle cap flashing effect, since you never really see it on the show.
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Old February 5 2014, 12:51 AM   #2120
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Beta-Z wrote: View Post
Start Wreck wrote: View Post

I'm not overly familiar with the X-Files, but are there any comparable FX shots that demonstrate what they've learned since then?
Haven't seen shots of that, but they're not touching these anyway.
FOX ordered that all FX material is only being UPSCALED from SD for the entire series.
Same thing happened to the show "Firefly" in HD.
Here is a posting in another forum with stills from an HD episode (currently broadcast on German TV), both upscaled FX shots and life action shots:
http://forum.cinefacts.de/208508-akt...ml#post7969776
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Old February 5 2014, 12:59 AM   #2121
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Maurice wrote: View Post
If I missed it in this thread, had there been any discussion of what of the Phase II test footage is included in this set? I read that it was in the "Making It So" segment. Anyone remember how much they showed?

trevanian wrote: View Post
Several years back I tried to find a way to get all those old transcripts from GEN and FC off the 3.5" floppies, but since it was done in a weird file format (I used one of those electronic typewriter thingies rather than a computer almost up till the end of the century), I couldn't salvage anything. I have maybe a thousand cut words from the GEN article on hard copy, but nothing relevant to this issue, unfortunately.
What format or which word processor type? There are services which will recover that data.

Also, re the 6-footer, I was surprised to learn that ILM had built in a nacelle cap flashing effect, since you never really see it on the show.
I've got no idea, maybe it was a Smith-Corona processor? I supposed I should research this, I know I kept a couple of the disks the last time I moved, so they should be here someplace.

Where did you hear about the nacelle flash thing, on the disks? Is it like the TOS effect or more like the FC one?
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Old February 5 2014, 08:19 AM   #2122
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

^^^The Nacelle effect, which looks like swirling plasma is in this clip (6:55 seconds in):



I see it's from "The Trek Not Taken" Blu-ray special feature. I'm mot sure but it might be one of those "get it if you buy it ay this store" features.
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Old February 5 2014, 01:08 PM   #2123
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Thought I'd chime in to defend the Enterprise-D. I love that design.

Carry on.

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Old February 5 2014, 06:43 PM   #2124
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

I'm glad I was finally able to see that. The model work is to me the most fascinating part of these remasters.

I notice they used the unused Booby Trap music for the underscore. I like little touches like that. Even though it's not in the episode, they make it part of the whole package regardless.
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Old February 5 2014, 11:48 PM   #2125
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Maurice wrote: View Post
^^^The Nacelle effect, which looks like swirling plasma is in this clip (6:55 seconds in):



I see it's from "The Trek Not Taken" Blu-ray special feature. I'm mot sure but it might be one of those "get it if you buy it ay this store" features.
Thanks for posting that! I thought I might never see it again due to trouble accessing Best Buy's moronic CinemaNow service. Entering my code again, which came with Season Three, didn't bring the video back either. And even with broadband internet, I still was never able to see it in anything but 480p! Now I can watch it whenever I want, and in 1080p! Based on the burned in German subs, this must be the version that was downloadable from Paramount Germany's website when customers bought Season Four.
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Old June 9 2014, 08:05 PM   #2126
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

This season is such a shame and a disgrace to fans and Star Trek. I can't believe the numerous mistakes, and shoddy VFX work done by "HTV Illuminate", now known as "Illuminate Hollywood". Grainy scenes, flat overall color. Just look at scenes where counselor Troi is sitting near a window with the starfield in back of her. Her hair is completely washed out and lacking any detail!

How could any VFX artist f*ck-up so badly on the shot of the Enterprise, where it wasn't aligned properly with the other layers? There is white outline around the saucer section in one scene! I'm terribly disappointed in Season 2. Not sure if it is all HTV Illuminate's fault, or Dan Curry, etc?

After season 7 is done, I would hope that CBS Digital would go back and redo season 2 properly. But it looks like we won't ever get redone, due to costs. Okuda said he was very happy with how season 2 turned out.
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Old June 9 2014, 09:28 PM   #2127
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Warped Trekker wrote: View Post
After season 7 is done, I would hope that CBS Digital would go back and redo season 2 properly. But it looks like we won't ever get redone, due to costs. Okuda said he was very happy with how season 2 turned out.
Like you said, too expensive to even consider. Even harder to roll out and sell.

I'm now of the opinion that the work done by HTV is simply "good enough". The effects work are an eyesore, sure, but I can live with it. I will still rewatch these episodes as I would the other seasons because I enjoy most of these episodes. The only thing that really ticks me off is when they crank up the DNR when there's a bluescreen element, because the quality changes dramatically from shot to shot:

DNR, no grain, very little detail
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...man_hd_076.jpg

Same scene, grain, detailed, textured:
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...man_hd_080.jpg
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Old June 10 2014, 04:16 PM   #2128
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

jimbotron wrote: View Post
Warped Trekker wrote: View Post
After season 7 is done, I would hope that CBS Digital would go back and redo season 2 properly. But it looks like we won't ever get redone, due to costs. Okuda said he was very happy with how season 2 turned out.
Like you said, too expensive to even consider. Even harder to roll out and sell.

I'm now of the opinion that the work done by HTV is simply "good enough". The effects work are an eyesore, sure, but I can live with it. I will still rewatch these episodes as I would the other seasons because I enjoy most of these episodes. The only thing that really ticks me off is when they crank up the DNR when there's a bluescreen element, because the quality changes dramatically from shot to shot:

DNR, no grain, very little detail
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...man_hd_076.jpg

Same scene, grain, detailed, textured:
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...man_hd_080.jpg
I agree; it's very jarring, especially when the picture quality varies so much in the same scene.

We're going to have to convince ourselves that it's "good enough," because we'll never get a correction.
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Old June 10 2014, 04:44 PM   #2129
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Doug Otte wrote: View Post
We're going to have to convince ourselves that it's "good enough," because we'll never get a correction.
I'll never agree to it being 'good enough' because it isn't. It's a wart on an otherwise near perfect restoration. I'm stilling holding out to buy Season 2 used from a bargain bin. I simply don't have the money to toss out 30 to 60 dollars on something that's so poorly done. Could never justify it.
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Old June 10 2014, 04:48 PM   #2130
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

It's a shame it wasn't given quite the same careful treatment, but it still looks better than the DVDs by quite a considerable margin and it could have been a hell of a lot worse. They could have just upscaled all the effects shots and called it a day.

It's still an impressive undertaking, they just didn't have the same quality control.
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