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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old January 21 2014, 05:35 AM   #2071
Maxwell Everett
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Beta-Z wrote: View Post
Maxwell Everett wrote: View Post

That looks pretty great! I was eagerly anticipating images of this debut broadcast. I assume it was aired with a German dub, correct? No original English audio? And what was the frame rate, 60i with 2:3 pulldown or 50i?
Dubbed, yes. No english audio.
It was shown at PAL speed, similar to the RC2 DVD.
So, a little bit faster than US-speed.
But that's the normal thingy with TV here in Europe, I guess.

But anyway, this was only the pilot and that's already a GREAT recommendation to get the Xfiles BD-sets imho. I will.
Thanks for the info! I guess I'll have to speed up the audio from my R1 DVDs if I ever run across these and attempt to remux.

Looks like the pilot AND "Deep Throat" based on those last two caps (more here). The pilot was shot by Thomas Del Ruth with standard "Academy Offset" 35mm cameras and framed for TV Trans 1.33:1. However, starting with the second episode, "Deep Throat," John S. Bartley took over as DP for the next three years and they switched to Super 35mm and protected for 1.78:1 while shooting for 1.33:1. So while the widescreen is certainly a compromise, they were at least conscious of it at the time of filming.

I wonder what the Blu-rays will be aspect ratio wise? This may only be for broadcast. Robert Meyer Burnett said HTV originally mastered them for 1.33:1, then went back to the negatives and did 1.78:1.
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Old January 21 2014, 05:45 AM   #2072
Beta-Z
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

I know the shots. I did some of the others. I'm "Jan Tenner" there.

I've read that on the rumormill at digitalbits as well.
Not 100% sure, but it looks like FOX is going to release seasons 1 to 4 in 16:9 on BD.
If they do a good job with the scans and take care, it could work. Fingers crossed.
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Old January 21 2014, 06:03 AM   #2073
Maxwell Everett
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Beta-Z wrote: View Post
I know the shots. I did some of the others. I'm "Jan Tenner" there.
Ah, apologies! So these are your personal caps, then. Awesome! You guys are very lucky, the El-Rey Network is going to be showing X-Files starting Feb. 14th on DirecTV, but unfortunately the channel is only SD and I'm not entirely sure they'll even air the remasters.
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Old January 21 2014, 06:41 AM   #2074
Beta-Z
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Maxwell Everett wrote: View Post
So these are your personal caps
Except for the last two ... yes.

Don't be too jealous, 7Maxx shows the eps with commercials, so it's not really THAT interesting, at least not to me.
But i'm quite happy to have gotten a glimpse of what the BDs will probably look like.
Only bad thing about this is that 2014 will be very BAD for my purse ... again.
But what the heck ... it's our "fetish", isn't it?

Last edited by Beta-Z; January 21 2014 at 06:55 AM.
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Old January 22 2014, 12:44 AM   #2075
MakeshiftPython
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

What's the issue many have with HTV's work on S2, other than the less than stellar composite work of the f/x models? The main footage with the actors looked great, at least I thought.
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Old January 22 2014, 01:43 AM   #2076
jimbotron
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
What's the issue many have with HTV's work on S2, other than the less than stellar composite work of the f/x models? The main footage with the actors looked great, at least I thought.
Take a look at any live action shot that had a bluescreen element, and it becomes a mess. They applied heavy digital noise reduction, perhaps to avoid the issue of matching the grain structure. No need to match the grain if they just wipe it all out. Here's an example from The Measure of a Man:

DNR:
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...man_hd_076.jpg

Next shot, No DNR:
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...man_hd_077.jpg

Next shot, DNR:
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...man_hd_078.jpg

Next shot, No DNR:
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...man_hd_079.jpg

Notice how the DNRed shots lose so much detail that they can be mistaken for upscaled SD. This occurs throughout the season. Also notice Wesley in The Dauphin:

DNR:
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...hin_hd_401.jpg

No DNR:
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...hin_hd_402.jpg
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Old January 22 2014, 03:41 AM   #2077
MakeshiftPython
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Forgot about that part, which is thankfully few and far between. Other than that, what are other issues you'd include?
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Old January 22 2014, 04:05 AM   #2078
Tosk
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

I don't know about you, but sub-par compositing and heavy inconsistent DNR use count as two gigantic strikes against them, not things that are to be brushed aside with, "What else?"
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Old January 22 2014, 04:35 AM   #2079
jimbotron
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

What else? I'm glad to see some optimism. Those things take up less a tiny fraction of the season as a whole. Most of the time, it looks quite nice. Good color, heavy grain (I like grain), and generally good sharpness, except when there's a bluescreen.

But when it got bad, it got really bad, and things together were dealbreakers for some. I guess if I were to nitpick, they used the wrong film element (perhaps they lost the real one) in Where Silence Has Lease, regardless of the correct angle. And they used it over:

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...ase_hd_214.jpg

And over
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...ase_hd_218.jpg

And over
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...ase_hd_233.jpg

And over again
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...ase_hd_284.jpg

Last edited by jimbotron; January 22 2014 at 06:49 PM.
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Old January 22 2014, 04:43 AM   #2080
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

The reason I ask "what else" is because it's being implied that HTV is doing a better job at X-FILES than they did with TNG, and what we're seeing at this moment is just non-f/x shots that look as good as what we saw on TNG's non-f/x shots. Because of that, I'm wondering if all the footage was messed up on TNG aside from the f/x work.

I do think it's a shame that the f/x shots were not handled to the standard that CBS has shown with the first season, but other than that I love seeing all that footage (non-f/x) newly scanned with all the detail and color. "The Measure of a Man" may have a bad bluescreen composite shot, but that's such a small part of the whole episode that I'm able to enjoy it overall.

EDIT: And I'll be honest in saying I never noticed that they used the incorrect angle footage on that episode, guess I'm just not that observant!
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Old January 22 2014, 04:50 AM   #2081
SpHeRe31459
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

The bad bluescreen compositing is an epidemic across all of S2, so while it may not be distracting in a few places, it's everywhere.
More to the point, it's totally inexcusable in this day-and-age of good digital post-production tools.
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Old January 22 2014, 04:56 AM   #2082
jimbotron
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
The reason I ask "what else" is because it's being implied that HTV is doing a better job at X-FILES than they did with TNG, and what we're seeing at this moment is just non-f/x shots that look as good as what we saw on TNG's non-f/x shots. Because of that, I'm wondering if all the footage was messed up on TNG aside from the f/x work.
I think we got the quality of season 2 not because HTV was incompetent (well, maybe a little), but that they did not have enough time to complete it, so they had to cut corners.

This all could have been avoided had CBS not insisted on releasing three seasons in 2013.
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Old January 22 2014, 05:04 AM   #2083
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Hopefully a redo can be done in the future if it's just for stuff like compositing. They won't have to dig up the film elements and such anymore, as all the footage is scanned anyway. Still, it might be too expensive for CBS to think it's even worth it, and that would be a shame.
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Old January 22 2014, 06:27 AM   #2084
jimbotron
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

I can't see that ever happening. It's not like remastering a 2-hour movie. This would be redoing months worth of work just to satisfy a small subset of fans.

The only people who would want it are 12 fans who refused to buy it and fans who bought it and demand free replacements, meaning it would never recoup its cost.

Last edited by jimbotron; January 22 2014 at 06:48 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old January 22 2014, 01:06 PM   #2085
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Overall, I was happy with season two on Blu-ray.
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