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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old February 17 2015, 01:45 AM   #1
James T Kirk
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Tired of Enterprise D not using their firepower

If I was Captain I would launch as many torpedos as possible at all times during battle.

Not sure why all the hesitation.

Stupid and unrealistic.
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Old February 17 2015, 02:32 AM   #2
Melakon
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Re: Tired of Enterprise D not using their firepower

Of course it's unrealistic, it's a television show.
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Old February 17 2015, 02:32 AM   #3
BillJ
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Re: Tired of Enterprise D not using their firepower

Star Trek: The Next Generation simply wasn't that kind of show. Roddenberry preached the use of a peaceful solution first and only using the firepower necessary.
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Old February 17 2015, 02:34 AM   #4
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Re: Tired of Enterprise D not using their firepower

Melakon wrote: View Post
Of course it's unrealistic, it's a television show.
YOU LIE!!! TV IS REAL!!! IT'S REAL!!! It's real... It's real...

*goes and sobs quietly in a corner*

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Old February 17 2015, 02:39 AM   #5
Melakon
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Re: Tired of Enterprise D not using their firepower

BillJ wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
Of course it's unrealistic, it's a television show.
YOU LIE!!! TV IS REAL!!! IT'S REAL!!! It's real... It's real...

*goes and sobs quietly in a corner*

Oh, okay. Here, take your drawing of a space station back.
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Old February 17 2015, 04:59 AM   #6
Lance
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Re: Tired of Enterprise D not using their firepower

^ ^

One does get the feeling that we never 'really' saw the 1701-D giving her best, especially in a battle scenario. Sometimes we see them do stuff which is just amazing, like the high speed barrel-roll out of the Dyson Sphere doors in "Relics", but most of the time we just didn't see the ship do dynamic things like that. Battle situations were pretty much the same: there was always something static about them, where you kind of felt the ship could be doing more... but it didn't. 'Battleship' wasn't really among it's chief mission objectives, but I don't doubt it should've been more than capable in a fire-fight. We just never really got to see that.
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Old February 17 2015, 05:03 AM   #7
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Tired of Enterprise D not using their firepower

James T Kirk wrote: View Post
If I was Captain I would launch as many torpedos as possible at all times during battle.

Not sure why all the hesitation.

Stupid and unrealistic.
They don't want to run OUT of torpedoes. Sure, they can be replaced, but not during the battle. And in the end, what can torpedoes do that phasers can't?
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Old February 17 2015, 05:08 AM   #8
Lance
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Re: Tired of Enterprise D not using their firepower

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
James T Kirk wrote:
If I was Captain I would launch as many torpedos as possible at all times during battle.

Not sure why all the hesitation.

Stupid and unrealistic.
They don't want to run OUT of torpedoes. Sure, they can be replaced, but not during the battle.
This is a very good point. Tactically it makes no sense to throw everything you've got at an enemy when a) your chief objective is to disable them, not to simply blow them apart; and b) you've emptied the ship of all it's most potent ammo, so if they've still got something else up their sleeves, then you're dead.

The only way it would make even the slightest sense is if photon torpedoes can be replicated on demand. But everything we're told about the Star Trek universe suggests this is not the case.
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Old February 17 2015, 05:10 AM   #9
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Tired of Enterprise D not using their firepower

If the Enterprise D immediately unloaded their entire arsenal at the slightest sign of threat, it would have been a boring show.
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Old February 17 2015, 05:49 AM   #10
Melakon
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Re: Tired of Enterprise D not using their firepower

If you throw everything you've got into your opening salvo, all torpedo tubes are empty and phasers have to recharge. Better pray your shields hold up for a few minutes while the enemy returns fire.
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Old February 17 2015, 05:56 AM   #11
Lance
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Re: Tired of Enterprise D not using their firepower

See, in Star Wars, where you've got this kind of fast-paced aerial combat IN SPACE thing going on, those kinds of strafing runs where they let the enemy have everything they've got make sense.

But this is Star Trek, where it's more like ship-to-ship combat in the age of sail. Starships are these lumbering beasts that have to maneuver into parallel positions with their enemy to make the most effective use of their weaponary (even something like the Ent-D's phaser strip). It isn't just as 'simple' as firing all your weapons at an enemy combatant and hoping some of them hit the target.

Star Trek combat is less visceral, more tactical.
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Old February 17 2015, 06:20 AM   #12
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Re: Tired of Enterprise D not using their firepower

The worst example was in Generations. The Enterprise was getting its ass handed to it by a rundown Bird of Prey, and their only return fire was a single phaser shot. They were too busy talking about plasma coils.
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Old February 17 2015, 06:23 AM   #13
Ithekro
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Re: Tired of Enterprise D not using their firepower

I think the only times we see a Galaxy-class ship let loose are "Best of Both Worlds" when Enterprise starts firing as many phaser banks as possible, and during a few of the Dominion Wars battles were several Galaxy-class ships open up on Cardassian warships with multiple phaser banks.

But it is rare to see a Galaxy fire lots of torpedoes. Outside of certain TNG episodes were they fire a spread or two of ten torpedoes at once, we don't see them fire like that during the war. Maybe single torpedoes every once in a while in the background shots, but never a massive spread. (you'd think a Galaxy Wing firing multiple torpedo spreads into a Dominion Fleet just before the rest of the fleet closes to range would help soften up the enemy line).
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Old February 17 2015, 06:31 AM   #14
Cyke101
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Re: Tired of Enterprise D not using their firepower

jimbotron wrote: View Post
The worst example was in Generations. The Enterprise was getting its ass handed to it by a rundown Bird of Prey, and their only return fire was a single phaser shot. They were too busy talking about plasma coils.
Hey now, to be fair the Enterprise *might* have fired another shot. Well after the first phaser blast, the Klingon officer on the BoP says that shields are holding, implying a hit.

...that still means the Klingon/Enterprise shot ratio was 255,798:1, but still.
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Old February 17 2015, 01:01 PM   #15
Timo
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Re: Tired of Enterprise D not using their firepower

Actually, there aren't many instances where the E-D would have needed to use firepower at all!

Basically, Picard could withhold fire indefinitely, because he had such a badass ship that he could hold a ten-minute conference while the enemy was doing his very worst, and then return to the bridge to say "Okay, you can stop now, we've come up with a solution". If the enemy didn't appreciate that solution, Picard could just wait ten minutes more and see if the enemy exhausted his ammo or patience.

Three types of opponents might have succumbed to a more aggressive use of the E-D arsenal:

1) Romulans, with their powerful ships. But firing at Romulan ships would not be a good way to solve problems, especially not if the firing was potent enough to destroy those ships. Romulans are a threat as a Star Empire, not as individual ships, and the trick is in keeping them from attacking, by placating or humiliating them or sometimes both.
2) Borg. But Picard blew his one chance by not firing enough in "Q Who?", and any one-on-one fight against the Borg thereafter would have been futile.
3) Renegade Klingons. Nobody would complain if these were blown out of the sky. But while ST:GEN is a good example of a failure to do that, it's also the only example!

Hey now, to be fair the Enterprise *might* have fired another shot.
There are sound effects indicating the firing of phasers and possibly torpedoes throughout the battle. Although firing of torps would probably be a bad idea, because several episodes suggest that proximity detonations of those would do as much harm to the firing vessel as to the intended target. Riker was suffering from acute impotency of shields, one he could not explain, so should he risk firing torpedoes at point-blank ranges? The shields would probably have held just fine against Riker's own weapons, but he couldn't know that.

Timo Saloniemi
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