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Old September 6 2012, 07:06 AM   #16
sojourner
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Re: TOS-era Defiant-class Ships

TIN_MAN wrote: View Post
I disagree. In regards to the Leif Ericson, I didn't say anyone "had it in mind", I only suggested certain features of the concept art by Jefferies -most notably the engines- bear more than a passing resemblance to those on the Defiant. This suggests that those responsible for these features on the Defiant as we know it, were familiar with Jefferies concept art and/or the model kit, and were, at least subliminally, influenced by either one or both. If so, it would not be the first, or last, time those in the Star Trek art dept. took inspiration from among Jefferies earlier concept art.
The link I provided does not agree.
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Old September 6 2012, 04:04 PM   #17
JES
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Re: TOS-era Defiant-class Ships

The link you provided doesn't seem to say anything. I'm wondering if the site is down?

That said, I do remember looking through the Valiant/Defiant's development process, and from the comments that I remember reading, no mention of any of Jefferies designs were made, and the impression given was that a variety of different shapes and forms were tries before coming to the one we are oh so familiar with.
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Old September 6 2012, 05:51 PM   #18
sojourner
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Re: TOS-era Defiant-class Ships

^The link seems to be working right now. Regardless, basically what you said. It was a process with a pretty clear lineage.
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Old September 6 2012, 11:44 PM   #19
TIN_MAN
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Re: TOS-era Defiant-class Ships

sojourner wrote: View Post
TIN_MAN wrote: View Post
I disagree. In regards to the Leif Ericson, I didn't say anyone "had it in mind", I only suggested certain features of the concept art by Jefferies -most notably the engines- bear more than a passing resemblance to those on the Defiant. This suggests that those responsible for these features on the Defiant as we know it, were familiar with Jefferies concept art and/or the model kit, and were, at least subliminally, influenced by either one or both. If so, it would not be the first, or last, time those in the Star Trek art dept. took inspiration from among Jefferies earlier concept art.
The link I provided does not agree.
Nothing in that article precludes the possibility that elements of the final Defiant design were not inspired either consciously or subconsciously from the Leif Ericson or its concept art, or a dozen other sources for that matter.

Whenever source credit is given in such instances, itís just a professional courtesy anyway, thereís no law that says an artist has to divulge each and every source of inspiration when interviewed for a brief article.

Maybe itís a coincidence, maybe not? But until I get something more specific, Iíll remain convinced thereís a connection.
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Old September 7 2012, 12:54 AM   #20
JES
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Re: TOS-era Defiant-class Ships

^
^ Yeah, it seems it was either down or too busy late this morning, but it is working fine now (good thing, given that articles like these are something I consider very important).

Perhaps the only way to settle this once and for all would be for someone to ask the designer, Jim Martin.
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Old September 7 2012, 02:48 AM   #21
sojourner
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Re: TOS-era Defiant-class Ships

TIN_MAN wrote: View Post



Nothing in that article precludes the possibility that elements of the final Defiant design were not inspired either consciously or subconsciously from the Leif Ericson or its concept art, or a dozen other sources for that matter.
But you can see in the preliminary designs how the shapes started to evolve. The design didn't start as a stripped down form of the Leif. Each piece evolved independently and only came together as the Defiant.
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Old September 7 2012, 03:02 AM   #22
TIN_MAN
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Re: TOS-era Defiant-class Ships

^^ Oh a lot of ideas were bandied about to be sure, I never said it started out as a Leif look alike, only that certain elements -namely the engine design- owes something to the Leif.

But somewhat more topical, one could do worse than to use the Leif -sans the neck and nosecone- as a starting point for a TOS era Defiant?
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Old September 7 2012, 06:19 AM   #23
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS-era Defiant-class Ships

FWIW, the 1st (minus the tail section) and the 3rd drawing from MJ bears a resemblance to the Defiant:

http://www.starshipdatalink.net/art/images/de-2.gif from this site:

http://www.starshipdatalink.net/art/1701.html
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Old September 10 2012, 03:41 AM   #24
Ian Keldon
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Re: TOS-era Defiant-class Ships

I found this one over at Deviantart.

http://lady-die.deviantart.com/galle...78915#/d1meq9i

In her gallery she has orthos as well
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Old September 10 2012, 12:19 PM   #25
Ziz
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Re: TOS-era Defiant-class Ships

Better, but still a bit too similar.
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Old September 10 2012, 07:27 PM   #26
apoagathos
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Re: TOS-era Defiant-class Ships

What about this?
http://www.shapeways.com/model/20820...ck-escort.html
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Old September 10 2012, 08:06 PM   #27
Ziz
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Re: TOS-era Defiant-class Ships

Eh...I guess. My problem with most of them is they look like backdated Defiants rather than something that was designed from scratch that could evolve into the Defiant - follow?
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Old September 11 2012, 01:12 AM   #28
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS-era Defiant-class Ships

Ziz wrote: View Post
Eh...I guess. My problem with most of them is they look like backdated Defiants rather than something that was designed from scratch that could evolve into the Defiant - follow?
Not sure what the difference is... the ship is fairly unique and to make it TOS-like there still will be features that say, "Defiant", IMHO.

FWIW, this is how I'd do a TOS Defiant:

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Old September 11 2012, 06:03 AM   #29
Albertese
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Re: TOS-era Defiant-class Ships

Nice! I'm digging your take on the TOS hardware in the Defiant arrangement.

--Alex
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Old September 11 2012, 02:24 PM   #30
Ziz
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Re: TOS-era Defiant-class Ships

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
Ziz wrote: View Post
Eh...I guess. My problem with most of them is they look like backdated Defiants rather than something that was designed from scratch that could evolve into the Defiant - follow?
Not sure what the difference is... the ship is fairly unique and to make it TOS-like there still will be features that say, "Defiant", IMHO.

FWIW, this is how I'd do a TOS Defiant:
I think what gets to me about them all is that it doesn't allow for any kind of true evolution of the ship's history. It's like they nailed down the configuration from the beginning and just refined the technology over the years. I'd rather see something that looks conceptually like a TOS Defiant but not so literal to the DS9 version with the small details like the nacelle shrouds, rear profile, the greeblies on top/bottom.

Ian Keldon's seemed like a true TOS Defiant - someone got an idea for a new ship configuration and whipped up a prototype using available ship components. Over the years, as the design was put thru its paces and refined, it eventually evolved into the DS9 Defiant.

Look at it from an existing example - compare the TOS E to the E-D. Yes, they both have a saucer, a dorsal, a secondary, and two nacelles on pylons but the ships don't look like they just kept swapping out parts over the years until one turned into the other. They're both unique builds.
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