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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

View Poll Results: Grade "Asylum Of The Daleks"
Geronimo! 96 55.17%
Good 57 32.76%
Average 15 8.62%
Save us! 4 2.30%
Exterminate!! 2 1.15%
Voters: 174. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 4 2012, 03:24 PM   #331
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Re: 7X01 Asylum Of The Daleks (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Do debating societies often have Prime Ministers?
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Old September 4 2012, 03:33 PM   #332
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Re: 7X01 Asylum Of The Daleks (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

They might on Skaro...

But again we've seen Prime Ministers in sci-fi, take the Centauri in Babylon 5.

At the end of the day it's just shorthand to give the audience an idea of what they're dealing with. Whether you think this is acceptable or not is another matter, and obviously there's the school of thought that says you should invent something alien sounding, but both schools of thought have been used throughout Who.

And really, for people who weren't keen on this episode, would your enjoyment have increased if it'd been something like this instead?

"Not any space ship, Amy, this is the Zyklomindfarb of the Daleks! Which means the Dalek Kibblerouser must be around here somewhere..."
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Old September 4 2012, 03:34 PM   #333
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Re: 7X01 Asylum Of The Daleks (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

But they also had a Prime Minister so it did sound like Dalek Westminster. But ok, they turned into democrats, I can live with that. I just thought it was a little odd and unexpected, given all that we know about them. However, it could also make for an interesting side story to explore but the episode didn't go into it, at all, and no one was surprised by it so why was this concept introduced?

The episode was ok while I was watching it but once you start thinking about it for a few minutes, it kind of falls apart. (For me, anyway) The nanoprobes thing came off as an arbitrary obstacle. Why would it be in place anyway? Can't the Daleks on the planet deal with any intruders (of which there probably wouldn't be that many, anyway)? The way it worked (turning organic matter into inorganic one, people retaining their memory despite being dead, the procedure working on dead people) also bugged me but Doctor Who science has always been decidedly unscientific.
Speaking of the Dalek-controlled humans, is anyone else worried about them being on Earth and able to grab Rory and Amy? I wonder who else they've replaced. Maybe all the world's leaders are secretly Daleks now and they're going to take over any minute.
There's also the issue of Skaro Daleks from earlier adventures existing which was already discussed in the thread. I suppose with the universe rebooted, everything is like in the old series except for the Timelords.
The "Doctor Who" bit at the end came off as silly to me. It shouldn't have gone on as long as it did. It was almost like a parody. The preview for next week also came off like that with its title. But I hope it'll be a better episode.
I liked the scenes in the Asylum - quite tense and exciting. And I liked Oswin's storyline although I suspected pretty early on that she's really a Dalek. Still, the way we got to see a different side of the Daleks that way, and that they are individuals reminded me of "Dalek".
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Old September 4 2012, 03:45 PM   #334
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Re: 7X01 Asylum Of The Daleks (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Starkers wrote: View Post
They might on Skaro...

But again we've seen Prime Ministers in sci-fi, take the Centauri in Babylon 5.

At the end of the day it's just shorthand to give the audience an idea of what they're dealing with. Whether you think this is acceptable or not is another matter, and obviously there's the school of thought that says you should invent something alien sounding, but both schools of thought have been used throughout Who.

And really, for people who weren't keen on this episode, would your enjoyment have increased if it'd been something like this instead?

"Not any space ship, Amy, this is the Zyklomindfarb of the Daleks! Which means the Dalek Kibblerouser must be around here somewhere..."
No, but we know the Daleks have Davros, an Emperor and Supremes, where is the need in adding a Parliament and a Prime Minister? Also going with Parliament and Prime Minister sounds like they're a democracy, which would seem hugely out of character for Daleks.
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Old September 4 2012, 03:47 PM   #335
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Re: 7X01 Asylum Of The Daleks (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Count Zero wrote: View Post

The episode was ok while I was watching it but once you start thinking about it for a few minutes, it kind of falls apart.
To be fair it's been that way for most of the past 2 series. I did enjoy series 5 but 6 just had too much "If you think about it this doesn't work" stuff going on for me to not question it.
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Old September 4 2012, 03:51 PM   #336
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Re: 7X01 Asylum Of The Daleks (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

It just struck me that this episode would have worked better as a Cyberman story. This would explain the human conversion aspect. Also, the human-like units would make more sense. They're just more human looking cybernetic people. And, it doesn't run contrary to the established ruling structure as far as I know. The Dalek's already had their emperor but I don't know that the Cybermen had a top ruler established?

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Old September 4 2012, 03:52 PM   #337
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Re: 7X01 Asylum Of The Daleks (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Count Zero wrote: View Post
But they also had a Prime Minister so it did sound like Dalek Westminster. But ok, they turned into democrats, I can live with that. I just thought it was a little odd and unexpected, given all that we know about them. However, it could also make for an interesting side story to explore but the episode didn't go into it, at all, and no one was surprised by it so why was this concept introduced?
A Prime Minister hasn't always equated to democracy, the notion of a directly elected pm is still relatively recent.

The episode was ok while I was watching it but once you start thinking about it for a few minutes, it kind of falls apart. (For me, anyway)
Without meaning to be churlish most films/tv do, for me at least I think my ability to nitpick/or ignore nitpicks just comes down to whether I enjoyed an episode or not. I'm just more forgiving of stories I liked.

Speaking of the Dalek-controlled humans, is anyone else worried about them being on Earth and able to grab Rory and Amy? I wonder who else they've replaced. Maybe all the world's leaders are secretly Daleks now and they're going to take over any minute.
Wouldn't be the first time

The "Doctor Who" bit at the end came off as silly to me. It shouldn't have gone on as long as it did. It was almost like a parody. The preview for next week also came off like that with its title. But I hope it'll be a better episode.
I liked the scenes in the Asylum - quite tense and exciting. And I liked Oswin's storyline although I suspected pretty early on that she's really a Dalek. Still, the way we got to see a different side of the Daleks that way, and that they are individuals reminded me of "Dalek".
Doctor Who? is steering just the right side of parody for me at the moment. It is, after all, a legitimate question.

I think we can safely assume next week's is supposed to be as silly as the title suggests.

I didn't figure she was an actual Dalek, I just thought she'd been robotised.

On another topic a few have raised, in reference to the Daleks use fo the pathweb (or whatever it was called) and nanogenes, they've always evolved, if they hadn't we'd still have Daleks who could only move around on metal tracks, or Daleks who all had big satellite dishes stuck to their backsides...
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Old September 4 2012, 03:53 PM   #338
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Re: 7X01 Asylum Of The Daleks (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Bob the Skutter wrote: View Post
Count Zero wrote: View Post

The episode was ok while I was watching it but once you start thinking about it for a few minutes, it kind of falls apart.
To be fair it's been that way for most of the past 2 series. I did enjoy series 5 but 6 just had too much "If you think about it this doesn't work" stuff going on for me to not question it.
Yeah, it's been like that for me, too, with the difference that I didn't really enjoy it very much for the most part (I loved "Vincent and the Doctor" though) which is why I gave up watching after "Let's kill Hitler". The Christmas Special was ok and I thought I might try again with the new series, especially since there will be a new companion and often that's like starting over.
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Old September 4 2012, 03:55 PM   #339
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Re: 7X01 Asylum Of The Daleks (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

[QUOTE=Starkers;6909296]
Count Zero wrote: View Post

The episode was ok while I was watching it but once you start thinking about it for a few minutes, it kind of falls apart. (For me, anyway)
Without meaning to be churlish most films/tv do, for me at least I think my ability to nitpick/or ignore nitpicks just comes down to whether I enjoyed an episode or not. I'm just more forgiving of stories I liked.
This is true, and the fact I'm questioning it so much in the past series or two is testament to the fact I'm not enjoying it so much. Which is a shame, I really do want to enjoy it it's obviously not connecting with me, otherwise I wouldn't be nitpicking it so much.
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Old September 4 2012, 04:05 PM   #340
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Re: 7X01 Asylum Of The Daleks (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

[QUOTE=Bob the Skutter;6909317]
Starkers wrote: View Post
Count Zero wrote: View Post

Without meaning to be churlish most films/tv do, for me at least I think my ability to nitpick/or ignore nitpicks just comes down to whether I enjoyed an episode or not. I'm just more forgiving of stories I liked.
This is true, and the fact I'm questioning it so much in the past series or two is testament to the fact I'm not enjoying it so much. Which is a shame, I really do want to enjoy it it's obviously not connecting with me, otherwise I wouldn't be nitpicking it so much.
I've pretty much come to the conclusion that, pound for pound, I probably like Who under Moffat about the same as I liked it under RTD, which is a bit of a shame as I thought I'd like it lots more. He's still yet to annoy me as much as RTD did at times at least!
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Old September 4 2012, 04:07 PM   #341
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Re: 7X01 Asylum Of The Daleks (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

[QUOTE=Starkers;6909359]
Bob the Skutter wrote: View Post
Starkers wrote: View Post

This is true, and the fact I'm questioning it so much in the past series or two is testament to the fact I'm not enjoying it so much. Which is a shame, I really do want to enjoy it it's obviously not connecting with me, otherwise I wouldn't be nitpicking it so much.
I've pretty much come to the conclusion that, pound for pound, I probably like Who under Moffat about the same as I liked it under RTD, which is a bit of a shame as I thought I'd like it lots more. He's still yet to annoy me as much as RTD did at times at least!
Same boat here. Just a different set of pros and cons but, in balance, about the same level of enjoyment overall.

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Old September 4 2012, 04:07 PM   #342
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Re: 7X01 Asylum Of The Daleks (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Starkers wrote: View Post
A Prime Minister hasn't always equated to democracy, the notion of a directly elected pm is still relatively recent.
Yeah, sure, if we talk of our understanding of modern Western democracy. However, a parliament involves someone electing someone, i.e. a measure of democracy, even if there isn't universal suffrage. The Daleks were supposed to be stand-ins for the Nazis so that seems out-of-character for them. It seems to be kind of weird to introduce this new concept at the beginning of the episode without doing anything with it.
However, that was only one of the things that bugged me. All of these things together drag the episode down for me.


Starkers wrote: View Post
Without meaning to be churlish most films/tv do, for me at least I think my ability to nitpick/or ignore nitpicks just comes down to whether I enjoyed an episode or not. I'm just more forgiving of stories I liked.
Sure. But there is a limit for me. At some point, the nitpicks will diminish my enjoyment of the episode/movie.


Starkers wrote: View Post
Speaking of the Dalek-controlled humans, is anyone else worried about them being on Earth and able to grab Rory and Amy? I wonder who else they've replaced. Maybe all the world's leaders are secretly Daleks now and they're going to take over any minute.
Wouldn't be the first time
No spoilers! I've only just finished season 14 of the old show.

Mr Awe wrote: View Post
It just struck me that this episode would have worked better as a Cyberman story. This would explain the human conversion aspect. Also, the human-like units would make more sense. They're just more human looking cybernetic people. And, it doesn't run contrary to the established ruling structure as far as I know. The Dalek's already had their emperor but I don't know that the Cybermen had a top ruler established?
Yup, they had a cyber ruler and later a Cyberking. They aren't democrats, either, it seems.


Oh, by the way, I hope I'm not coming off as too whiny here but some of the CGI (especially the shot of the Dalek parliament) looked kind of bad and a little jarring. Have I been away too long from Who to notice that or is it real (the budget cuts taking their toll)?
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Old September 4 2012, 04:11 PM   #343
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Re: 7X01 Asylum Of The Daleks (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Alright, so it looks as if The Daleks (for the time being) have been fully re-established as an adversary. Does anyone think it's time for The Time Lords to make a come back? I know it's been on my wish list since the series came back but maybe just maybe SM is edging towards that possibility.
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Old September 4 2012, 04:24 PM   #344
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Re: 7X01 Asylum Of The Daleks (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Count Zero wrote: View Post

Oh, by the way, I hope I'm not coming off as too whiny here but some of the CGI (especially the shot of the Dalek parliament) looked kind of bad and a little jarring. Have I been away too long from Who to notice that or is it real (the budget cuts taking their toll)?
I think the CG took a hit in the upgrade to HD, they were talking about it being difficult to render quick enough at HD resolutions on the budget they had and it's been cut since.
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Old September 4 2012, 04:39 PM   #345
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Re: 7X01 Asylum Of The Daleks (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

I look at the "Pathweb" as being a command and control system. Each Dalek can act independently, but orders and information conveyed via this web.

And I thought the Dalek-fied humans were a lovely update of the old Roboman concept.
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