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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old April 13 2014, 06:26 PM   #916
kirk55555
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

Ghost Light was very mediocre. It wasn't terrible, but I can't think of anything good to say about it. Ace was ok, I guess. The Doctor was just kind of there. The aliens were stupid and annoying, and the whole plan/motivation was stupid. By episode 3 I was mostly tuning the story out from boredom and just not aring. After the excellent Battlefield, this was very disappointing. Next up is The Curse of Fenric, and I hope its better. I'm glad that I'm almost done with McCoy's run.
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Old April 13 2014, 07:04 PM   #917
DWF
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

Had the series not been cancelled before Battlefield aired it's very low ratings would've done it for them. Part 2's 2.6 million viewers was the lowest in the show's long history. And I while I personally like the show, it's the low point of the season for me.
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The greatest science fiction series of all time is
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or all in a bunch to back it up!"
--- Harlan Ellison, from his introduction
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Old April 13 2014, 07:12 PM   #918
starsuperion
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

I just finished watching the classic "carnival Of Monsters" epi on Netflix. It brings to the forefront a notion that in other Galaxies the Time Lords and even beings known as the Daleks are not known, and makes me wonder why there hasn't been more exploration of similar outer reaches which the technology and alien races with their own federations, or planets of origin can't become new and exciting stories, outside of the norm. Granted the aliens in Carnival of Monsters seemed tame by today's standards, but what about an entire race that invades and becomes a huge problem for the new daleks, or the new Cybermen, like the vong from Star Wars, or species 8472 from Voyager? that would be an interesting storyline to follow. the invasion of the milky way, from Andromeda, or something like that..
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Old April 14 2014, 12:02 AM   #919
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Ghost Light was very mediocre. It wasn't terrible, but I can't think of anything good to say about it.
It's a really hard story to follow, especially while you're watching it. Unlike most Doctor Who episodes, there's never a point where they all just stop and the Doctor explains what the hell is going on. Mostly, the Doctor seems to expect Ace to figure it out on her own. However, I do like that speech from the Doctor about the things he hates.
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Old April 14 2014, 12:31 AM   #920
diankra
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

It's interesting seeing your reactions to these: for me the MCCoy stories break down fairly easily into three groups...

Good: Remembrance, GhostLight, Fenric and Survival.
Watchable: Battlefield, Greatest Show, Dragonfire and Happiness Patrol (actually, HP is could have been great, but isn't, so it ends up as watchable as a middle ground).
So God Awful That It Was Embarrassing To Be Interested in Doctor Who Back Then: Time and the Rani, Paradise Towers, Silver Nemesis and Delta (though I do quite like Delta part one). In the entire 50 year run, Time and the Rani and Silver Nemesis are the only two where I'd genuinely say I'd sooner they'd never been made.
As the phrase goes, Your Mileage May Vary!
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Old April 14 2014, 01:08 AM   #921
kirk55555
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Ghost Light was very mediocre. It wasn't terrible, but I can't think of anything good to say about it.
It's a really hard story to follow, especially while you're watching it. Unlike most Doctor Who episodes, there's never a point where they all just stop and the Doctor explains what the hell is going on. Mostly, the Doctor seems to expect Ace to figure it out on her own. However, I do like that speech from the Doctor about the things he hates.
The speech was ok, but it felt like he was being a jerk to Ace. Basically, he's saying that the things he hates are much more important than hers, and hers don't even matter. He's been a jerk to Ace several times, and never for any real reason. He's honestly more of an ass than the 6th at times, if only because he seems to have more extreme mood swings. I think I've figured out my opinion of the 7th. He can be good, when he has good material (like Battlefield and Delta and the Bannermen). But if he's got bad material he doesn't do anything to make it better.

For example, even in his worst serials, Colin Baker always did a pretty good job of making his stuff at least worth seeing (except for the parts of Mindwarp when he was being controlled and not acting normal). As another example, Tom Baker made The Android Invasion at least not put me to sleep. But the 7th Doctor doesn't make his parts in bad stories particularly worth watching. Since I've disliked a good portion of his stories early on its really made me fairly uninterested in the Doctor himself. I'm thinking this is more of a writing problem than an acting problem, because the 7th's personality doesn't really entertain me much even in good stories. He just doesn't feel like a very interesting character. Hopefully The Curse of Fenric and Survival are good showings from the Doctor, it would suck to see his run end like it started.

diankra wrote: View Post
It's interesting seeing your reactions to these: for me the MCCoy stories break down fairly easily into three groups...

Good: Remembrance, GhostLight, Fenric and Survival.
Watchable: Battlefield, Greatest Show, Dragonfire and Happiness Patrol (actually, HP is could have been great, but isn't, so it ends up as watchable as a middle ground).
So God Awful That It Was Embarrassing To Be Interested in Doctor Who Back Then: Time and the Rani, Paradise Towers, Silver Nemesis and Delta (though I do quite like Delta part one). In the entire 50 year run, Time and the Rani and Silver Nemesis are the only two where I'd genuinely say I'd sooner they'd never been made.
As the phrase goes, Your Mileage May Vary!
Yeash, everyone has their own likes and dislikes. There are several Doctor Who stories I loathe that people love (the easiest example is from New Doctor who, where I HATE Human Nature/The Family of Blood), and some others I thought were ok but most people hate (like The Twin Dilemma).
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Old April 14 2014, 01:58 AM   #922
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Ghost Light was very mediocre. It wasn't terrible, but I can't think of anything good to say about it.
It's a really hard story to follow, especially while you're watching it. Unlike most Doctor Who episodes, there's never a point where they all just stop and the Doctor explains what the hell is going on. Mostly, the Doctor seems to expect Ace to figure it out on her own. However, I do like that speech from the Doctor about the things he hates.
The speech was ok, but it felt like he was being a jerk to Ace. Basically, he's saying that the things he hates are much more important than hers, and hers don't even matter. He's been a jerk to Ace several times, and never for any real reason. He's honestly more of an ass than the 6th at times, if only because he seems to have more extreme mood swings. I think I've figured out my opinion of the 7th. He can be good, when he has good material (like Battlefield and Delta and the Bannermen). But if he's got bad material he doesn't do anything to make it better.
The seventh Doctor was a puppet master and really what he put though, she needed to go though it. And really if you didn't like what he had to do in Ghost Light, you're really going to hate his actions at the end of Curse Of Fenric.
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The greatest science fiction series of all time is
Doctor Who! And I'll take you all on, one-by-one
or all in a bunch to back it up!"
--- Harlan Ellison, from his introduction
to the PINNACLE series of Doctor Who books
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Old April 14 2014, 02:34 AM   #923
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

I still haven't seen a good example of him being a "puppet master", at least any more than the other Doctors. All the versions of The Doctor are clever enough to trick their enemies, they just usually stop at that. 7th is just playing intentional mind games with his companion, seemingly for his own amusement. His games had no benefit for Ace in Ghost Light, just like his complete dismissal of her feelings on clowns in The Greatest Show in the Galaxy didn't amount to anything but him being an ass.

If calling him a puppet master means that he tricks people while often an unlikeable jerk, then I'd agree to that. He just doesn't seem to have much use for being nice. He's been weird like that the last few stories. He goes between being bland to being a complete jerk within the span of an episode. The 6th Doctor may have been argumentative, but I always got the feeling that he cared about his companions, and people in general. I wouldn't be surprised if the 7th only keeps Ace around to toy with. I feel like he wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice her life if it suited his purposes and not be too broken up about it. I think he's fond of her, but I also think he's ready and willing to use her in whatever way he thinks he needs to. This has only really occurred to me recently. He was much friendlier when Mel was around. Ace as a character deserved a much better Doctor. With the 6th I think she'd have been great and had a better relationship.
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Old April 14 2014, 02:49 AM   #924
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
I still haven't seen a good example of him being a "puppet master", at least any more than the other Doctors. All the versions of The Doctor are clever enough to trick their enemies, they just usually stop at that. 7th is just playing intentional mind games with his companion, seemingly for his own amusement. His games had no benefit for Ace in Ghost Light, just like his complete dismissal of her feelings on clowns in The Greatest Show in the Galaxy didn't amount to anything but him being an ass.

If calling him a puppet master means that he tricks people while often an unlikeable jerk, then I'd agree to that. He just doesn't seem to have much use for being nice. He's been weird like that the last few stories. He goes between being bland to being a complete jerk within the span of an episode. The 6th Doctor may have been argumentative, but I always got the feeling that he cared about his companions, and people in general. I wouldn't be surprised if the 7th only keeps Ace around to toy with. I feel like he wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice her life if it suited his purposes and not be too broken up about it. I think he's fond of her, but I also think he's ready and willing to use her in whatever way he thinks he needs to. This has only really occurred to me recently. He was much friendlier when Mel was around. Ace as a character deserved a much better Doctor. With the 6th I think she'd have been great and had a better relationship.
He does feel for Ace and much more than he did for Mel, poor Mel he left on frozen planet with only Glitz as company. But he did make Darvos blow up Skaro and it's own sun, make the Cybermen destory their own fleet in Silver Nemesis, he also tricked Light into destorying himself. And I don't think he's a jerk, but he is the last Doctor I'd to make angry.
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The greatest science fiction series of all time is
Doctor Who! And I'll take you all on, one-by-one
or all in a bunch to back it up!"
--- Harlan Ellison, from his introduction
to the PINNACLE series of Doctor Who books
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Old April 14 2014, 08:54 AM   #925
NightJim
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

kirk55555 wrote: View Post

1st Doctor:
An Unearthly Child

2nd Doctor:
Tomb of the Cybermen

3rd Doctor:
Spearhead from Space
Doctor Who and The Silurians
The Three Doctors

4th Doctor:
everything up to The Deadly Assassin (The Face of evil is the next one I need to see)

5th Doctor:
The Five Doctors
The Caves of Androzani

6th Doctor:
Everything

7th Doctor:
watched first 2 seasons, this is the one that's currently my priority to watch

8th Doctor:
Everything (televised, so that means The Movie + Night of the Doctor)

9th:
Everything

10th:
Everything

11th:
Everything
Ha, this list practically mirrors mine at the start of the year.

Recently was shamed/lambasted into watching them in order. Got as far as Dalek Invasion of Earth before I jumped to late Troughton (who I've seen last year's two finds and War Games on top of Tomb). I do enjoy Hartnell, but they're a little bit of a slog, one after the other. I've gone late Troughton because I want to watch more Pertwee because I've only seen Daemons, and felt watching Invasion first was a good shout.
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Old April 14 2014, 03:30 PM   #926
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

I've just kind of jumped around the classic Doctors. I was watching a good deal of the 4th for awhile, then I decided to go through the 6th since his run was fairly short, and after I was done with him I decided to go through the 7th. After I finish McCoy's era, I'll probably go back to watching the 4th, possibly watching some of the other Doctors occasionally, depending on my mood.
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Old April 14 2014, 03:47 PM   #927
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

DWF wrote: View Post

He does feel for Ace and much more than he did for Mel, poor Mel he left on frozen planet with only Glitz as company. But he did make Darvos blow up Skaro and it's own sun, make the Cybermen destory their own fleet in Silver Nemesis, he also tricked Light into destorying himself. And I don't think he's a jerk, but he is the last Doctor I'd to make angry.
All the Doctors I've seen trick people. I don't remember the 7th blowing up Skaro (and it seemed fine in the TV movie when he went there to pick up The Master's "remains" ) but I'd say that 10 and 11 have tricked more Daleks than him. I could see any Doctor doing what he did in any of those situations mentioned, they just wouldn't be jerks while doing it.

Personally, the last Doctor I'd want to make angry would be the War Doctor. Sure, the 7th may be a master at mental torture, but the War Doctor seems like he'd be more threatening.
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Old April 15 2014, 01:29 AM   #928
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
DWF wrote: View Post

He does feel for Ace and much more than he did for Mel, poor Mel he left on frozen planet with only Glitz as company. But he did make Darvos blow up Skaro and it's own sun, make the Cybermen destory their own fleet in Silver Nemesis, he also tricked Light into destorying himself. And I don't think he's a jerk, but he is the last Doctor I'd to make angry.
All the Doctors I've seen trick people. I don't remember the 7th blowing up Skaro (and it seemed fine in the TV movie when he went there to pick up The Master's "remains" ) but I'd say that 10 and 11 have tricked more Daleks than him. I could see any Doctor doing what he did in any of those situations mentioned, they just wouldn't be jerks while doing it.

Personally, the last Doctor I'd want to make angry would be the War Doctor. Sure, the 7th may be a master at mental torture, but the War Doctor seems like he'd be more threatening.
I don't know you could've forgotten how the story ended, the Doctor programmed the Hand Of Omega to destroy Skaro's sun, after making sure the right Daleks got the Hand, he then angered Darvos into using it. But instead of destroying Gallifrey the Hand destroyed Skaro's sun. And yes Skaro returned in the TV movie, not that it meant much. The seventh Doctor was a real manipulator and puppet master of the Doctors.
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The greatest science fiction series of all time is
Doctor Who! And I'll take you all on, one-by-one
or all in a bunch to back it up!"
--- Harlan Ellison, from his introduction
to the PINNACLE series of Doctor Who books
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Old April 15 2014, 05:46 AM   #929
kirk55555
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

Remembrance of the Daleks was fairly boring, so I just forgot how it ended. Apparently he didn't destroy Skaro well enough. But, you're right. He is a manipulator, and he showed his true colors as a malevolent puppet master in the horrible Curse of Fenric. This serial alone made me outright hate the 7th Doctor. I was right when I said he didn't care about Ace. She was only ever a part of some stupid plan. Plus, at this point she basically has stockholm syndrome, so she didn't even leave this sociopath after he revealed his true intentions in making her his companion, and his real opinion of her. She'd be in better company, and be safer, if she was traveling with The Master or The Rani. They at least are fairly open about their motivations. The Doctor hides his evil by pretending to be nice around some people, while screwing around with Ace and others behind their backs.

The War Doctor got a bad deal, it's actually the 7th incarnation of this timelord who doesn't deserve to be called The Doctor. I have to take back one of my problems with the 8th Doctor movie. The 7th Doctor deserved to die of medical malpractice. Even bumping his head on the TARDIS console like the 6th Doctor is too dignified for this a-hole. Heck, I think it would have been perfect if the 7th would have died choking on a peanut. The show definitely deserved to get cancelled during this era. If they wanted to have a show about an evil Timelord, they should have just made The Master the main character. His evil actions would at least have made sense.

I don't really blame McCoy for this. He seems like a good actor, its the writers that ruined his version of the Doctor. The 7th was at least not a horrible, evil person during his first stories. He was just a bit bland.

I didn't even bother with Survival. I refuse to watch one more second of the 7th Doctor. It helps that Ace becoming a cheetah person is extremely stupid sounding, and not something I'm interested in. Its surprising how things can take a bad turn so quickly, but this last season took the 7th Doctor from just being bland to being loathsome.

In the end, the 7th doctor had 2 good stories, Delta and the Bannermen and Battlefield, both of which could have been easily written for almost any Doctor (although the 1st wouldn't fit in Battlefield, because of the UNIT stuff). The 7th Doctor had nothing to do with the quality of either story. He also had one or two average stories, and several outright horrible stories. Outside of the two stories I mentioned as being good, I wouldn't rewatch anything else with the 7th Doctor. He was cruel, petty, uncaring, evil, and just all around unlikeable. He's hopefully the closest we'll ever get to having The Valeyard as the main character.

Next up, whenever I get to it, will probably be the 4th Doctor story The Face of Evil. I'll be happy to get back to watching a likeable Doctor again (meaning any Doctor but 7).
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Old April 15 2014, 10:37 AM   #930
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

The Doctor had to make her lose faith in him, but in the end Ace had to fogive herself for his hatred of her own mother. And had the series continued on to a 27th season Ace would've gone to Galifrey to become a Time Lord herself. Curse of Fenric was an excellent story and the longer version is even better.
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Doctor Who! And I'll take you all on, one-by-one
or all in a bunch to back it up!"
--- Harlan Ellison, from his introduction
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