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Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old March 12 2014, 03:11 PM   #856
kirk55555
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

Sindatur wrote: View Post
A Shame you were so dissatisfied with Trial Of A Timelord. I really enjoy it for the Political Machinations, and then to finally find out, this time, it's not The Timelords who are such pricks, but, rather, "a version" of The Doctor himself, in an attempt to steal his earlier lives for himself (Timey-Wimey). I enjoyed The Valleyard, The Inquisitor (The Judge who gets named The Inquisitor in The Gallifrey Adventures Audio Stories) and I really enjoyed Sabalon Glitz.


The Timelord High Council still killed a bunch of people on Earth when they moved it, and tried to cover it up by trying to kill the Doctor. The Valeyard didn't do any of that, he just took advantage of the situation. In the end, the Timelord High Council were the real villains in Trial of a Timelord, the Valeyard was just an evil entity the High Council was using for their purposes. As for the story in general, I think it suffered by having horrible stories inside the framing device. The Mysterious Planet, Mindwarp, and Terror of the Vervoids were horrible to mediocre adventures wrapped up in an ok framing device. If the adventures being used as evidence were any good, it would have helped Trial of a Timelord a lot.

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Mel, is actually my least favorite Companion ever. Fortunately, she's only in 14 of the 42 episodes in Sylvester McCoy's run (Her replacement is in the last 3 of those and the remaining 28 episodes). I've gotten more used to Mel after several rewatches, so, she doesn't bother me nearly as bad as she used to. I like 2 of the 4 stories in McCoy's first Series, but, you won't find many fans who have much good to say about any of those 4. McCoy's run is quite different in his second and third Series, so, if you dislike his First Series don't give up, you may like his second and third Series.
Well, I'm a crazy guy who thought that The Twin Dilemma was watchable and a bit entertaining, so I'll give the 7th Doctor's first season the benefit of the doubt. I don't plan on just giving up after one season, especially since I've heard good things about later episodes, and the 7th Doctor's second companion, Ace.
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Old March 13 2014, 02:43 AM   #857
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

Earthshock one of all time favorites a great action/adventure storyline and a wonderful return of the Cybermen. Plus Adric's death was a great addition to the storyline, it was the first companion's death since Katrina's in The Dalek Master Plan and Sarah Kingdom's as well, but Adric's death meant that travelling with the Doctor isn't safe. Of course few people liked Adric or Matthew Waterhouse so his death didn't quite have the impact I'm sure it was meant to.
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Old March 13 2014, 03:42 AM   #858
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

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One of the worst serials, IMO (though Destiny of the Daleks was slightly worse).
What didn't you like about Destiny of the Daleks? I thought it was a pretty good story, besides introducing my favorite Companion (Romana II).

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
I also thought that making Peri survive, married to a man that as far as I remember she thought was just a brutish barbarian and had no real connection with, was stupid. But, I'm pretty sure it wasn't the original intent, and I think her being dead would have been better.
I have to agree that it would have been a more effective story if they'd just killed Peri off and been done. But when you get to marry a warlord played by Brian Blessed, that's different.

Mel was annoying, and I'm hoping she doesn't stick around with the 7th for too long.
Invest in earplugs. Seriously. Fingernails on a blackboard is almost better to listen to.

That said, I loved Paradise Towers. Yes, Mel was in that, but she spends the entire story obsessing about a swimming pool, while the Doctor gets all the interesting stuff (unless you want to count evading little old ladies who are into cannibalism).

DWF wrote: View Post
Earthshock one of all time favorites a great action/adventure storyline and a wonderful return of the Cybermen. Plus Adric's death was a great addition to the storyline, it was the first companion's death since Katrina's in The Dalek Master Plan and Sarah Kingdom's as well, but Adric's death meant that travelling with the Doctor isn't safe. Of course few people liked Adric or Matthew Waterhouse so his death didn't quite have the impact I'm sure it was meant to.
Adric was one of my favorite characters, and I thought his death was well-handled. Many fans have nothing but contempt for the character, but think of it this way: If Adric hadn't gone back to figure out the last computations, the human race would never have existed. Adric's actions and last encounter with the Cyberman put the freighter back in time - exactly on schedule to crash into Earth and kill the dinosaurs.

And unlike Star Trek, there are actual consequences from this. Even after death, Adric is still very much a presence in the TARDIS and in the minds of the Doctor, Tegan, and Nyssa.
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Old March 13 2014, 11:47 AM   #859
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

I remember being an occasional watcher of DW at the time and I liked Adric fine. I found his death quite shocking and saddening (but I was only about 10 or 11, admittedly).
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Old March 13 2014, 12:30 PM   #860
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

^Ditto. I have a friend who's still traumatised by the death of Adric!

My view of Adric seems to be constantly shifting. Back in the day I had no problem with him, but later I came to realise what a terrible actor he is, that said the last few times I've watched Adric episodes I've found the character more interesting than I gave him credit for. He's a git, and not above siding with the bad guys, or at least being taken in by the bad guys, which is a refreshing take for a companion.

He's probably my least favourite companion of the Baker/Davison era but I don't hate him nearly as much as I used to.
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Old March 13 2014, 03:45 PM   #861
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
I remember being an occasional watcher of DW at the time and I liked Adric fine. I found his death quite shocking and saddening (but I was only about 10 or 11, admittedly).
I knew about it long before I got to see the episode (somebody spoiled it in one of the magazines). It was fitting that the end credits were absolutely silent, showing Adric's broken Badge of Mathematical Excellence, and it annoyed me greatly that during the 50th anniversary marathon (Earthshock was the episode chosen to represent the Davison era), they used the same bright, spangly music at the end as for all the other episodes.

Starkers wrote: View Post
^Ditto. I have a friend who's still traumatised by the death of Adric!

My view of Adric seems to be constantly shifting. Back in the day I had no problem with him, but later I came to realise what a terrible actor he is, that said the last few times I've watched Adric episodes I've found the character more interesting than I gave him credit for. He's a git, and not above siding with the bad guys, or at least being taken in by the bad guys, which is a refreshing take for a companion.

He's probably my least favourite companion of the Baker/Davison era but I don't hate him nearly as much as I used to.
Adric was a misfit no matter where he was. He was an outsider among his peers on his home planet - too smart and serious to hang around with his brother and his friends, and too young to be accepted as an equal among the adults. No sooner had he earned some respect from his brother, then his brother was killed.

In the TARDIS it was a similar story - he was too-whatever (smart, serious, moody, etc.) to be completely accepted by the Doctor and Tegan. Nyssa was the only one who liked him for himself, and that was largely due to their becoming friends on Traken.

Yes, Adric was somewhat selfish and self-centered. He'd grown up being constantly praised for how smart he was, and he naturally assumed he was smarter than almost anyone except the Doctor (Fourth) and Romana. I think he redeemed himself at the end, and came full circle () in the scene where he's facing his death and clutching the belt that used to be his brother's.
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Old March 13 2014, 11:17 PM   #862
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

Time and the Rani was just ok. I liked the 7th Doctor well enough, and the overall story was ok, but it had problems. Mel was really annoying, especially when she screamed. She seriously just screamed for about 30 seconds at one point, even restarting after taking a breath/being interrupted. The Rani was better in her first appearance. In this she just didn't seem as interesting, and it was annoying when she was pretending to be Mel. The big threat of rani's plan was ok, although it wasn't that interesting. Overall, this wasn't horrible, but it wasn't a very impressive way to start the 7th Doctor's run. Next up is Paradise Towers.
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Old March 13 2014, 11:26 PM   #863
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

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Time and the Rani was just ok. I liked the 7th Doctor well enough, and the overall story was ok, but it had problems. Mel was really annoying, especially when she screamed. She seriously just screamed for about 30 seconds at one point, even restarting after taking a breath/being interrupted. The Rani was better in her first appearance. In this she just didn't seem as interesting, and it was annoying when she was pretending to be Mel. The big threat of rani's plan was ok, although it wasn't that interesting. Overall, this wasn't horrible, but it wasn't a very impressive way to start the 7th Doctor's run. Next up is Paradise Towers.
Heh, as far as Time and The Rani goes, I think yours is a glowing review.

Paradise Towers feels very different than any Doctor Who story previously (Many of McCoy's stories have this "new" feel, I believe, though, style of writing does change in his second Series), I believe, but, it's one I really like (1 of the 2 of McCoy's first Series that I really enjoy)
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Old March 14 2014, 01:27 AM   #864
DWF
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

Timewalker wrote: View Post
DWF wrote: View Post
Earthshock one of all time favorites a great action/adventure storyline and a wonderful return of the Cybermen. Plus Adric's death was a great addition to the storyline, it was the first companion's death since Katrina's in The Dalek Master Plan and Sarah Kingdom's as well, but Adric's death meant that travelling with the Doctor isn't safe. Of course few people liked Adric or Matthew Waterhouse so his death didn't quite have the impact I'm sure it was meant to.
Adric was one of my favorite characters, and I thought his death was well-handled. Many fans have nothing but contempt for the character, but think of it this way: If Adric hadn't gone back to figure out the last computations, the human race would never have existed. Adric's actions and last encounter with the Cyberman put the freighter back in time - exactly on schedule to crash into Earth and kill the dinosaurs.

And unlike Star Trek, there are actual consequences from this. Even after death, Adric is still very much a presence in the TARDIS and in the minds of the Doctor, Tegan, and Nyssa.
Well after Time-Flight and small appearance at the end of Caves Of Androzani Adric really isn't mentioned, so I don't really agree with you. However after Tasha died on TNG she was brought up several times and even ressurected and given a daughter.
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Old March 14 2014, 01:46 AM   #865
Timewalker
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

DWF wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
DWF wrote: View Post
Earthshock one of all time favorites a great action/adventure storyline and a wonderful return of the Cybermen. Plus Adric's death was a great addition to the storyline, it was the first companion's death since Katrina's in The Dalek Master Plan and Sarah Kingdom's as well, but Adric's death meant that travelling with the Doctor isn't safe. Of course few people liked Adric or Matthew Waterhouse so his death didn't quite have the impact I'm sure it was meant to.
Adric was one of my favorite characters, and I thought his death was well-handled. Many fans have nothing but contempt for the character, but think of it this way: If Adric hadn't gone back to figure out the last computations, the human race would never have existed. Adric's actions and last encounter with the Cyberman put the freighter back in time - exactly on schedule to crash into Earth and kill the dinosaurs.

And unlike Star Trek, there are actual consequences from this. Even after death, Adric is still very much a presence in the TARDIS and in the minds of the Doctor, Tegan, and Nyssa.
Well after Time-Flight and small appearance at the end of Caves Of Androzani Adric really isn't mentioned, so I don't really agree with you. However after Tasha died on TNG she was brought up several times and even ressurected and given a daughter.
What does Tasha Yar have to do with this?

Considering the Fifth Doctor never really got over Adric's death (hence calling his name during the regeneration), I wouldn't dismiss the scene in Caves of Androzani.

You've forgotten the scene in Terminus, where Tegan gives Turlough Adric's old room, and gets upset when Turlough dismisses it as a "kid's room" (since nobody had cleared out Adric's belongings yet).
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Old March 14 2014, 02:07 AM   #866
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

Timewalker wrote: View Post
DWF wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post

Adric was one of my favorite characters, and I thought his death was well-handled. Many fans have nothing but contempt for the character, but think of it this way: If Adric hadn't gone back to figure out the last computations, the human race would never have existed. Adric's actions and last encounter with the Cyberman put the freighter back in time - exactly on schedule to crash into Earth and kill the dinosaurs.

And unlike Star Trek, there are actual consequences from this. Even after death, Adric is still very much a presence in the TARDIS and in the minds of the Doctor, Tegan, and Nyssa.
Well after Time-Flight and small appearance at the end of Caves Of Androzani Adric really isn't mentioned, so I don't really agree with you. However after Tasha died on TNG she was brought up several times and even ressurected and given a daughter.
What does Tasha Yar have to do with this?

Considering the Fifth Doctor never really got over Adric's death (hence calling his name during the regeneration), I wouldn't dismiss the scene in Caves of Androzani.

You've forgotten the scene in Terminus, where Tegan gives Turlough Adric's old room, and gets upset when Turlough dismisses it as a "kid's room" (since nobody had cleared out Adric's belongings yet).

Well you said that there was no conquences of death on Star Trek, which is why I mentioned Tasha Yar. And really Tegan wasn't too upset for giving Adric's room to Turlough. Although I did find it funny that Matthew Waterhouse wasn't given a script beforehand and had to steal Peter Davison'sscript to learn of Adric's death.
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Doctor Who! And I'll take you all on, one-by-one
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Old March 14 2014, 02:12 AM   #867
Timewalker
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

DWF wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
DWF wrote: View Post
Well after Time-Flight and small appearance at the end of Caves Of Androzani Adric really isn't mentioned, so I don't really agree with you. However after Tasha died on TNG she was brought up several times and even ressurected and given a daughter.
What does Tasha Yar have to do with this?

Considering the Fifth Doctor never really got over Adric's death (hence calling his name during the regeneration), I wouldn't dismiss the scene in Caves of Androzani.

You've forgotten the scene in Terminus, where Tegan gives Turlough Adric's old room, and gets upset when Turlough dismisses it as a "kid's room" (since nobody had cleared out Adric's belongings yet).
Well you said that there was no conquences of death on Star Trek, which is why I mentioned Tasha Yar. And really Tegan wasn't too upset for giving Adric's room to Turlough. Although I did find it funny that Matthew Waterhouse wasn't given a script beforehand and had to steal Peter Davison'sscript to learn of Adric's death.
In general, people who die on Star Trek are rarely remembered by the end of the episode, let alone several episodes later.

The novel version of Terminus disagrees with your assessment of Tegan's frame of mind. Since the novelizations were done using the scripts, I consider it valid.

As for Matthew Waterhouse not being given a script, what is your source for that?
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Old March 14 2014, 03:24 AM   #868
DWF
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

Timewalker wrote: View Post
DWF wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
What does Tasha Yar have to do with this?

Considering the Fifth Doctor never really got over Adric's death (hence calling his name during the regeneration), I wouldn't dismiss the scene in Caves of Androzani.

You've forgotten the scene in Terminus, where Tegan gives Turlough Adric's old room, and gets upset when Turlough dismisses it as a "kid's room" (since nobody had cleared out Adric's belongings yet).
Well you said that there was no conquences of death on Star Trek, which is why I mentioned Tasha Yar. And really Tegan wasn't too upset for giving Adric's room to Turlough. Although I did find it funny that Matthew Waterhouse wasn't given a script beforehand and had to steal Peter Davison'sscript to learn of Adric's death.
In general, people who die on Star Trek are rarely remembered by the end of the episode, let alone several episodes later.

The novel version of Terminus disagrees with your assessment of Tegan's frame of mind. Since the novelizations were done using the scripts, I consider it valid.

As for Matthew Waterhouse not being given a script, what is your source for that?
The novel of Terminus is much better than the televised version, but really Tegan spent little time thinking about Adric and it was probably the first time she thought about him since his death and we have no idea how long ago that was for her. And for the script info, it's in the commentary, the DVD also has an ep. five where you can see that Adric didn't kill off the dinosaurs by the ship's impact, it rather funny to see.
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Old March 14 2014, 04:40 AM   #869
Timewalker
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

DWF wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
DWF wrote: View Post
Well you said that there was no conquences of death on Star Trek, which is why I mentioned Tasha Yar. And really Tegan wasn't too upset for giving Adric's room to Turlough. Although I did find it funny that Matthew Waterhouse wasn't given a script beforehand and had to steal Peter Davison'sscript to learn of Adric's death.
In general, people who die on Star Trek are rarely remembered by the end of the episode, let alone several episodes later.

The novel version of Terminus disagrees with your assessment of Tegan's frame of mind. Since the novelizations were done using the scripts, I consider it valid.

As for Matthew Waterhouse not being given a script, what is your source for that?
The novel of Terminus is much better than the televised version, but really Tegan spent little time thinking about Adric and it was probably the first time she thought about him since his death and we have no idea how long ago that was for her. And for the script info, it's in the commentary, the DVD also has an ep. five where you can see that Adric didn't kill off the dinosaurs by the ship's impact, it rather funny to see.
I never said she spent a lot of time thinking about Adric. She didn't actually like him much at first, but then she was getting used to the idea of having been accidentally shanghaied away from Earth and her precious stewardess job.

I do have the DVD of Earthshock, but haven't watched it yet. Is that something that was actually filmed as a real part of the story? 'Cause to me, if it wasn't on TV and it wasn't in the official novelization, it's not canon (exception being the Paul McGann webisode).
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Old March 15 2014, 11:08 PM   #870
DWF
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Re: Last Classic Who Story you watched

No it's an extra on the DVD not an official ep. but it rather funny and I really liked the 40th Anniversary music video.
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