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Old August 24 2012, 07:06 PM   #1
Mars
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Could "Star Wars" happen in the 23rd Century Mirror Universe?

Lets flip over to the Mirror Universe of the 23rd century, before Emperor Spock took over and turned it into a Republic, lets assume this version of the Mirror Universe is the counterpart to the Star Trek XI movie, in that everything that happened before The Star Trek Episode "Mirror Mirror" occured as per Star Trek cannon, but since we have a different Universe on the other side Kirk and others don't beam over to the ISS Enterprise as had happened in original Star Trek canon.

Lets take this universe with the Terran Empire and ask the question, can this in anyway resemble Star Wars? There too we have an evil empire to deal with, The Terran Empire is smaller than the Galactic Empire of Star Wars, but it is certainly evil and human dominated like the other one was.

The first step is to find a suitable desert planet orbiting a close binary within the Terran Empire. Well have to replace the Star Destroyer and the rebel ship with something close enough in the Star Trek Universe, and we need a princess that needs rescuing, and some heroes to rescue her, and perhaps an elderly vulcan as well living out on this desert as a hermit. Could this work? what do you think?
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Old August 26 2012, 04:23 AM   #2
Nerys Myk
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Re: Could "Star Wars" happen in the 23rd Century Mirror Universe?

So tell Star Wars using Trek characters? Why?
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Old August 26 2012, 07:26 AM   #3
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Re: Could "Star Wars" happen in the 23rd Century Mirror Universe?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
So tell Star Wars using Trek characters? Why?
Because it would be fun, and it would showcase the similarities and differences between the milieus. And basically Star Trek Technology would force the story to go in a different direction, and its an amusing way to pass the time as well.

Remember the opening scene in Star Wars IV A New Hope. Well I'm sure Star Trek has desert planets and double star systems, but we'd replace the Rebel ship with what and the Star Destroyer with what?

Maybe the Star Destroyer gets replaces with a Constitution Class cruiser like the ISS Enterprise for example. The rebel ship is smaller than that, and there is phaser fire between the larger and smaller ships as well as photon torpedeos being exchanged, The Shields are knocked down in the smaller ship. The princess has to deliver her message to the reclusive vulcan living down on the planet's surface, but there are no droids available to deliver this message on. Well it appears she's going to have to beam down herself and deliver it in person or send someone else.

the equivalent to Luke Skywalker is a half-vulcan similar to Spock, though much younger, he lives with his human aunt and uncle on their moisture farm. The half-vulcan as a consequence isn't very logical, hasn't been raised as a vulcan by his human foster family and is often mistaken for a Romulan, but he is a vulcan, and is developing telepathic powers as he matures. The princess is also half-vulcan as the two of them are twins.
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Old August 26 2012, 08:29 AM   #4
kythe
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Re: Could "Star Wars" happen in the 23rd Century Mirror Universe?

How would you explain the Force? I love both Star Trek and Star Wars, but I can't reconcile the two because there is nothing in Star Trek that resembles the Force.

If I was to try to put both stories in the same universe, it would be to come up with a new storyline with new and interesting possibilities, not just rehash the same stuff.
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Old August 26 2012, 06:22 PM   #5
Mars
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Re: Could "Star Wars" happen in the 23rd Century Mirror Universe?

Star Trek has mind powers including in some cases Telekinesis, though in Star Trek Telekinesis is a really big deal. Remember that Gary Mitchel demonstrated Telekinesis. Spock can't move objects with just his mind alone, his mind powers is limited to telepathy, and only that at close range. Occompans such as the girl from Voyager had powers that might be comparable to a Jedi.
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Old August 27 2012, 07:53 AM   #6
The Castellan
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Re: Could "Star Wars" happen in the 23rd Century Mirror Universe?

I thought that what Trek 09 was.
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Old August 27 2012, 02:24 PM   #7
R. Star
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Re: Could "Star Wars" happen in the 23rd Century Mirror Universe?

I think this one belongs in a crossover fanfic.
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Old August 27 2012, 02:40 PM   #8
Garrovick
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Re: Could "Star Wars" happen in the 23rd Century Mirror Universe?

Other than both being set primarily in space and the necessary use of spaceships, Star Wars and Star Trek really don't have that much in common. Certainly the technology is totally different, and the mental powers of Vulcans, Ocampans, etc. are in no way similar to the Force. Plus a major source of conflict in SW is the whole "light side/dark side" split and that definitely wouldn't fit into the Star Trek universe.

If you had to twist Star Wars to shoehorn it into the Star Trek universe, then it really wouldn't be Star Wars anymore.
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Old August 27 2012, 07:07 PM   #9
Mars
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Re: Could "Star Wars" happen in the 23rd Century Mirror Universe?

Garrovick wrote: View Post
Other than both being set primarily in space and the necessary use of spaceships, Star Wars and Star Trek really don't have that much in common. Certainly the technology is totally different, and the mental powers of Vulcans, Ocampans, etc. are in no way similar to the Force. Plus a major source of conflict in SW is the whole "light side/dark side" split and that definitely wouldn't fit into the Star Trek universe.

If you had to twist Star Wars to shoehorn it into the Star Trek universe, then it really wouldn't be Star Wars anymore.
You mean the Terran Empire is not the Dark Side?
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Old August 27 2012, 08:22 PM   #10
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Could "Star Wars" happen in the 23rd Century Mirror Universe?

The most important aspect of Star Wars is the Force, and the fact that some inhabitants can manipulat for their own purposes, and the religious sheen over this. (eternal conflict of good vs evil and all that).

Either the Force does not exist in the Star Trek universe, or nobody knows how to use it, or if they do, theyre the Q and dont care about an eternal coflict of good vs evil.

So sure, you could introduce the superficial elements of Star Wars into Star Trek, lightsabers and all that, but that's too trivial to be more than an fanficcy exercise.

Mars wrote: View Post
You mean the Terran Empire is not the Dark Side?
No, because there's no metaphysical/religious aspect to their evil. The closest Star Trek has gotten to the Dark Side concept is the Prophets vs pagh'wraith, with Sisko awkwardly retconned into a Chosen One figure.

That was definitely getting Star Warsy, and the results weren't good. It came off as too shallow and contrived compared with the detailed, realistic and convincing political and character writing of the other storylines.


The Castellan wrote: View Post
I thought that what Trek 09 was.
In the sense that Star Wars set the style for all Hollywood popcorn action flicks forever after, you're right. Fans of The Avengers comic could just as easily level that charge at Joss Whedon. But really, its just the price any moviemaker must pay for entrance into the Top Ten box office. Would ou have preferred that Trek 09 had been a flop and killed the franchise for good?
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Old August 27 2012, 09:51 PM   #11
The Castellan
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Re: Could "Star Wars" happen in the 23rd Century Mirror Universe?

Would ou have preferred that Trek 09 had been a flop and killed the franchise for good?
Better than a WTF mutation catered for the average dumb, joe sixpack, since that's all that Hollywood caters to these days.
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Old August 28 2012, 04:41 PM   #12
R. Star
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Re: Could "Star Wars" happen in the 23rd Century Mirror Universe?

The Castellan wrote: View Post
Would ou have preferred that Trek 09 had been a flop and killed the franchise for good?
Better than a WTF mutation catered for the average dumb, joe sixpack, since that's all that Hollywood caters to these days.
There is a grain of truth to this one.
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Old August 28 2012, 05:31 PM   #13
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Re: Could "Star Wars" happen in the 23rd Century Mirror Universe?

On the one hand, no, because the Force and the Jedi have no Trek-equivalent. You could shoehorn one in by drastically changing the history far in the past and having Vulcan Kolinahru or kironide-using Platonians to take on a starfaring role as Mystic Space Police, but that would make everything look very different anyway.

On the other hand, you might argue that in the 24th century, DS9 basically did this already.
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Old August 28 2012, 06:05 PM   #14
Nerys Myk
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Re: Could "Star Wars" happen in the 23rd Century Mirror Universe?

The Castellan wrote: View Post
Would ou have preferred that Trek 09 had been a flop and killed the franchise for good?
Better than a WTF mutation catered for the average dumb, joe sixpack, since that's all that Hollywood caters to these days.
"Hollywood's" been catering to them since the silents. Just because we fondly recall the "good" stuff doesn't mean the majority of what was made back then was good, intelligent or high brow nor is there a sudden dearth of "high brow" films today.

From TWOK forward, Trek films have had more action adventure content. Though TOS was an action adventure show with a fair amount of fights, explosions ( on a modest TV budget) and daring-do. Star Trek 09 is in keeping with that "tradition".
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Old September 21 2012, 03:50 PM   #15
Bagliun Edar
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Re: Could "Star Wars" happen in the 23rd Century Mirror Universe?

I am still to see good reasons (save for time) as to how Star Wars and Star Trek cannot be merged and a story be told that's true ST and true SW. SW things could be just things never mentioned/known on ST and viceversa, or maybe known under different names.

While it's true that the Force is a metaphysical thing for the Jedi, it could be just science for a ST-centered civilization. Subspace and hyperspace are not mutually contradicting. ST technology uses subspace technology while SW uses hyperspace technology. Both subspace and hyperspace can coexist.

The real problem for a true SW/ST crossover is that the galactic civil war against the evil empire took place "a long time ago". How long ago? I'd guess it was thousands of years ago, but it could have been hundreds of years ago. So while ST takes place in our future, SW takes place in our past, maybe with thousands of years in between.
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