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Enterprise The final frontier has a new beginning in this forum!

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Old November 15 2012, 01:30 AM   #451
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Re: My Trek Through Enterprise

^ I agree that they didn't have experience, and I'll even say that this was shown fairly well. But, that wasn't the issue I had with this episode.

R. Star wrote: View Post
Comparing the Augments in Enterprise to the Jack Pack isn't exactly fair. Of course the Jack Pack got more individual attention, there were only four of them and they could do that. In Enterprise there were a couple dozen, so naturally they focused on the ringleaders. Spending time to focus on those background augments really would just distract from the story arc.
The comparison is very fair. The "Jack Pack" were exactly what they were described as--Broken. The "Soong Pack" was described as extremely ambitious, intelligent, gifted, hostile, and driven. I really only saw that with one of them while the rest fell back as sheep. The way these augments were described within the series should have brought about more interactions in the group of about 10-12 augments (not 2 dozen). The only person that really questioned anything with any kind of ambition/arrogant defiance was again one augment. This made him look like the exception rather than the norm.

As far as individual time spent on each and every augment, well, I'm not and I was not asking for a full bio on each one. What I do think was necessary was more interaction. You mention that there were only 4 in the "Jack Pack," well we didn't even see 4 augments in these episodes interacting with each other at one specific time, so it's still a failure there, even by that standard. All I'm saying is that they either should have been more as a whole what they were described as or the definition should have been different to fit what we actually saw.

I'll agree with teacake about Persis being a tragic character. Nice to see that at least one of them had the capacity to be decent. And really the way she was murdered was brutally personal there. Never did understand why they all wore those torn clothes like they were uniforms, even if in the case of Persis it looked quite nice. You'd think genetically enhanced superhumans could figure out how to patch a hole if clothes were in short supply.
I agree here too, but I also think she fell in line a bit too easily when she herself seemed to be more measured and could have made a decent leader. Where was her ambition? It's kind of sad that her aspirations were simply sleeping with whatever dude ends up in charge. I think that was her mistake.

To the Forge? The whole story dragged, but finally got interesting enough in the end to keep you wondering what will happen next. Admiral Forrest dying kinda sucked. He was one of the few Admirals in Trek who wasn't a complete jerk. Really though, the story is dedicated to curing Evil Vulcan Syndrome.
I can't disagree here.

teacake wrote: View Post
The Space Seed augments are of the same era and augment project so they are much more comparable. The Jack Pack is hundreds of years later, failed backstreet augmentation that parents thought was going to improve their kids. The Space Seed augments didn't all stand out either and they followed their leader with a greater pack goal in mind which is what the ENT augments were struggling to do. They were handicapped by being much younger and having been abandoned early on but you could see they would have been a powerful squadron of augments had they had the training that the Space Seed augments clearly had had prior to going into stasis.

I think we had quite a few ENT augments being showcased, it's not like any group of people has all of them up front with individual stories.
And once again, the issue for me has nothing to do with hundreds of years later. The issue is that these augments weren't at all what they were described as, save for one. Something's up with that.
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Old November 15 2012, 01:39 AM   #452
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Re: My Trek Through Enterprise

If they were sheep they were sheep the way Khan's followers were sheep, in that they obviously desired a leader and fell into a hierarchical social structure. The generation of eugenics ENT and Space Seed augments came out of may have included a tweaking element of that, after all if you're going to rule the world you cannot all want to lead. There is no comparison to Jack's Pack other than that eugenics were involved.

The hundreds of years is completely relevant, the purpose for the eugenics as well as what they actually were doing was a very different thing.
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Old November 15 2012, 10:49 AM   #453
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They were sheep that, despite their "superior intelligence," weren't smart enough to question a bad leader and find a good one (which it seems is what they might have had at the beginning). Obviously the ambitious guy was deceptive, but even he could only wear a mask for so long. At around the same time Pesis realized that he wasn't the one, at least some of the others should have been questioning his rule as well. That doesn't mean that every single one of them wants to lead the group, but it does mean that every single one of them is able to put 2 and 2 together in their own way like Pesis did.

Now you want to drag Khan into it. Okay, the same thing you said about the "Jack Pack" applies here. Different batch of augments. They were also older and more experienced. Once again, the problem here was that these augments didn't live up to their flawed description, not that they weren't like other augments in other times.

So, either the description should have been different within the ENT series, or the augments should have been different so as to live up to the description. The only reason why I mentioned the "Jack Pack" in DS9 is because there, the people writing them actually made them what they were described as, so comparing the finer details of what they were is irrelevant here, only the fact that they actually were what they were described as. Since you seem to think that the ENT augments were just fine, then I'd guess you'd be leaning towards their description being off in this series because, one or the other, something was off.
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Old November 15 2012, 11:03 AM   #454
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Re: My Trek Through Enterprise

Awakening


It seems like the guy in charge of the VHC is dirty. I assumed that the guy they came across in the desert was Syran. So, he must have passed his katra over to Archer, as well as Surak's. What's happening to Archer reminds me of what happened to TOS McCoy when Spock died. I only vaguely remember that, but he seemed troubled by what he couldn't explain. And I don't know that I like T'Pau. In fanfiction, she's Spock's grandmother. I wonder if that's really true. I can understand why Surak chose to stay where he was because T'Pau seemed a little to closed-minded. Oh no, poor T'Pol. At least she got to say goodbye.

Grade: B minus
----------------

Kir'Shara


And so we do find out that Penar Syndrome is caused by a poorly trained practitioner. Even though it shows up on biological scans when someone has been damaged by an irresponsible practitioner, it can be corrected by someone who actually knows what they are doing. This means, that had the careless and selfish Vulcan that persuaded T'Pol into melding had A) known what he was doing, and B) cared enough not to rape her, then she would have never contracted the disease. Thank heavens for T'Pau!!! And another kind thanks to Sindatur for his good memory.

I'm disappointed in Shran. Soval went out of his way to help the Andorians, and this is the thanks he gets. I suppose Shran had his orders to follow, though. It's just that Soval didn't deserve torture. I'm glad that everything worked out in the end, and poor Kos. I almost think T'Pol didn't deserve him. He was such a good person. I think she broke his heart.

Oh, wait a minute. Was that a Romulan?

Grade: B
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Old November 15 2012, 11:45 AM   #455
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Re: My Trek Through Enterprise

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
I wish someone would feed T'Pol.
This. First time around really bugged me. Now I just work it that she's overcoming trellium/E2/etc damaged her and she's recovering. Not a big fan of the Vulcan capri pants, but the Japanese appropriation seems appropriate. Otherwise this was all Vulcan nirvana for me. Though first time saw the Romulan in Nemesis uniform, I was .
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Old November 15 2012, 11:49 AM   #456
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Re: My Trek Through Enterprise

lurok wrote: View Post
Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
I wish someone would feed T'Pol.
This. First time around really bugged me. Now I just work it that she's overcoming trellium/E2/etc damaged her and she's recovering. Not a big fan of the Vulcan capri pants, but the Japanese appropriation seems appropriate. Otherwise this was all Vulcan nirvana for me. Though first time saw the Romulan in Nemesis uniform, I was .
And this really is the best way to think about it. I can imagine that after a while, the trellium is taking its toll. That, and the fact that she's lovesick for Trip, lol.

Vulcan nirvana indeed.
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Old November 15 2012, 03:17 PM   #457
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Re: My Trek Through Enterprise

R. Star wrote: View Post
.... Never did understand why they all wore those torn clothes like they were uniforms, even if in the case of Persis it looked quite nice. You'd think genetically enhanced superhumans could figure out how to patch a hole if clothes were in short supply....
But that's work for inferiors!

Actually, I think they're all just arrogant. Pride goeth before the fall and all that. Hence they don't see the bad leader 'cause it's the logs in their eyes, etc. They don't want to believe not so much that he's bad but that they, as superiors, made such a wrongheaded decision.
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Old November 15 2012, 06:53 PM   #458
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Re: My Trek Through Enterprise

jespah wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
.... Never did understand why they all wore those torn clothes like they were uniforms, even if in the case of Persis it looked quite nice. You'd think genetically enhanced superhumans could figure out how to patch a hole if clothes were in short supply....
But that's work for inferiors!

Actually, I think they're all just arrogant. Pride goeth before the fall and all that. Hence they don't see the bad leader 'cause it's the logs in their eyes, etc. They don't want to believe not so much that he's bad but that they, as superiors, made such a wrongheaded decision.
So make the half augment kid do it!
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Old November 15 2012, 08:23 PM   #459
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Re: My Trek Through Enterprise

Maybe he's klutzy. Perhaps the unis are his attempts to make repairs.

Dayum, ya can't get good Augment help these days.
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Old November 15 2012, 09:03 PM   #460
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Re: My Trek Through Enterprise

jespah wrote: View Post
Maybe he's klutzy. Perhaps the unis are his attempts to make repairs.

Dayum, ya can't get good Augment help these days.
Apparently not!
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Old November 16 2012, 05:00 AM   #461
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jespah wrote: View Post
Maybe he's klutzy. Perhaps the unis are his attempts to make repairs.

Dayum, ya can't get good Augment help these days.
But Persis's PJ's didnt' have tears... until Malic gutted her anyways! So that leans towards it being some sort of fashion statement!
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Old November 16 2012, 06:47 AM   #462
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Maybe each tear represents something, a kind of tribal keeping tabs.
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Old November 16 2012, 11:05 AM   #463
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Re: My Trek Through Enterprise

Daedalus


Too bad for Trip. It's never nice to meet your childhood idol and then find it's not what you would have expected. That's pretty disappointing. And to boot, I'm not sure about this guy's morals or ethics. I almost feel sorry for his daughter, but she's going to need to stand up against him. The more I know about him, the more I dislike him. His intentions may have been good, but I don't like his methods. I'm not sure about Archer's support, either, but I guess... At least he got his son back.

Grade: C minus
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Old November 16 2012, 11:23 AM   #464
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Re: My Trek Through Enterprise

I know Daedalus is considered one of the worst eps of S4 (and maybe series) and when I first saw it agree with you and was disappointed. But over time, it's grown on me as me as a slow, gentle character-driven piece, a little inter-course between the dynamic three-parters. I really like the pacing and Bill Cobbs' performance as it's very different to rest of series.

PS: I now covet S/UF's avatar.
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Old November 16 2012, 11:39 AM   #465
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I agree lurok. I also think the fate of his son was disturbing and it's always good when Star Trek disturbs.
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