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 September 24 2012, 03:28 AM #16 Albertese Commodore     Location: Portland, OR Re: Impulse Deflection Crystal...? So, about warp factor 19.4 if we assume the old warp scale was warp factor ^3... --Alex __________________ Check out my website: www.goldtoothstudio.squarespace.com
September 24 2012, 06:49 AM   #17
blssdwlf
Commodore

Re: Impulse Deflection Crystal...?

 Maurice wrote: Just did the math for giggles. To make it to Andromeda in 300 years you'd have to travel at ~7,333 x light speed.
I calculated it to be about ~8,494c @TOS Warp 11 in Intergalactic Space

Speed is calculated from 2,540,000 LY / 299 Years
KIRK: What’s the point of capturing my ship? Even at maximum warp, the Enterprise couldn’t get to Andromeda galaxy for thousands of years.
ROJAN: Captain, we will modify its engines, in order to produce velocities far beyond the reach of your science. The journey between galaxies will take less than three hundred of your years.

ROJAN: And we’ll go faster yet. Increase speed to warp eleven.
KIRK: Increase speed to warp eleven, Mister Chekov.
For comparison at TNG Warp Scale, that would be a little slower than the Enterprise-D's trip back home in "Where No One Has Gone Before":

~8,970c @TNG Warp, E-D's "maximum warp" in S1.

Speed is calculated from 2,700,000 LY / 301 Years
PICARD: That’s not possible. Data, what distance have we travelled?
DATA: Two million seven hundred thousand light years.

LAFORGE: And I calculate that at maximum warp, sir it would take over three hundred years to get home.
In TNG, ~8,970c is somewhere between TNG Warp 9 (833c) and VOY Warp 9.9 (21,457c).

TNG and later appears to favor a "flat" or "universal" speed based on the warp factor. TOS, OTOH, appears to depend on whether the ship is in star system, in interstellar space or in intergalactic space and is fastest in interstellar space (200,000-800,000c range). IMHO.

September 24 2012, 09:19 AM   #18
Timo

Re: Impulse Deflection Crystal...?

There's still quite a bit of variety in the TNG era, mostly with short trips. It is with these insanely long intra- or intergalactic distances that we typically get both the travel time and the distance in hard numbers, but this is countered by many instances where we get a warp factor and an implicit travel time. Say, VOY "Scorpion": Borg intrigue 5.2 ly away, warp two for a hop that doesn't take hours of plot time.

It is pretty easy to argue that it's over long distances and times that the warp speeds "even out", both because local conditions grow statistically less relevant, and because there is good statistical evidence of what is a safe top speed for long duration travel yet always an option to ignore the limiters and lock the safety valves during short hops.

 Considering they already considered for TOS that the main and the engineering hull ("star drive section") could occasionally operate separately
Did they? All dialogue references are to discarding one component or another, rather than to continuing to operate it after a separation. It seems that a discarding sequence leaves just the saucer section surviving to tell the tale - and the propulsive capabilities of that section are never made clear, save for its supposed ability to break from orbit and escape the episode's calamity that is dragging the rest of the ship to a fiery crash.

As for the placement of putative reverse impulse engines, I think it's a bit of wasted effort. Only the various Enterprises look like they could be moving on rocket thrust from the aft-facing impulse engines anyway; the other ship designs have their aft-facing engines located far away from the supposed thrust axis, meaning they would just start spinning in place if thrust were applied - or would have to fly in a pronounced nose up or nose down orientation we do not observe. Something more exotic than directed rocket thrust must be involved there, which in turn makes it unnecessary to have rocket nozzles pointing forward for reverse thrust.

Timo Saloniemi

September 24 2012, 09:11 PM   #19
Robert Comsol
Commodore

Location: USS Berlin
Re: Impulse Deflection Crystal...?

Timo wrote:
 Considering they already considered for TOS that the main and the engineering hull ("star drive section") could occasionally operate separately
"Did they? All dialogue references are to discarding one component or another, rather than to continuing to operate it after a separation. It seems that a discarding sequence leaves just the saucer section surviving to tell the tale - and the propulsive capabilities of that section are never made clear, save for its supposed ability to break from orbit and escape the episode's calamity that is dragging the rest of the ship to a fiery crash."
"Designed to operate separately from the rest of the ship, the saucer therefore contains all elements necessary for independent operation." "Minimal crew quarters are located in this (secondary) hull, used by duty engineers and by the star-drive crew when the saucer section has detached and is operating separately."
Making of Star Trek, Part II, Chapter 2 (The U.S.S. Enterprise), pages 171 and 191.

Yes, they did consider hull separation for other occasions than just emergencies.

Bob
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September 25 2012, 01:30 AM   #20
blssdwlf
Commodore

Re: Impulse Deflection Crystal...?

 Timo wrote: There's still quite a bit of variety in the TNG era, mostly with short trips. It is with these insanely long intra- or intergalactic distances that we typically get both the travel time and the distance in hard numbers, but this is countered by many instances where we get a warp factor and an implicit travel time. Say, VOY "Scorpion": Borg intrigue 5.2 ly away, warp two for a hop that doesn't take hours of plot time.
Hmm, in "Scorpion", they travel 5.2 ly starting at Warp 2. But because of the cuts we don't know the time it actually took or if there were any changes in speed. They do have another reference in that episode which is inline with what we know of TNG+ Warp Speed scales:

~2,920c @ VOY "maximum warp"

Speed is calculated from 40 LY / 5 Days
SEVEN: Insufficient. Our latest tactical projections indicate that the war will be lost by then. The nearest Borg vessel is forty light years away. You will reverse course and take us to it.
CHAKOTAY: Even at maximum warp, that’s a five day journey in the wrong direction. We’re supposed to be heading out of Borg space, not deeper into it.

Last edited by blssdwlf; September 25 2012 at 01:55 AM.

September 25 2012, 09:18 AM   #21
Timo

Re: Impulse Deflection Crystal...?

 Yes, they did consider hull separation for other occasions than just emergencies.
Well, the makers of Star Trek did. There's no evidence Starfleet did, in-universe.

Even the quoted text makes it sound as if the stardrive section is not fully equipped and cannot operate independently, but must wait it out with a small supervising crew aboard when the saucer is having fun elsewhere. Whether the saucer can move around at warp/FTL is also left undiscussed.

Timo Saloniemi

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