RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,724
Posts: 5,214,934
Members: 24,210
Currently online: 859
Newest member: vagarcia74


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 27 2012, 01:34 AM   #1
NTRPRZ
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: Delaware
T'Pau should have been ticked ...

... that McCoy cheated during the koon-ut-kal-if-ee (forgive the spelling) ceremony. The fight was to the death of one of the combatants, yet McCoy only made it look like Kirk was dead. This violated the basic concept of the challenge and, IMO, made a mockery of Vulcan beliefs and traditions. I can imagine T'Pau, arguably the most powerful woman on Vulcan, turning this into a major diplomatic flap. It also could have called into question Stonn's right to T'Pring.

But T'Pau didn't do this, apparently. Any theories?
__________________
Jeff Brown
Original Trek Fan

Last edited by NTRPRZ; August 27 2012 at 01:44 AM.
NTRPRZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 27 2012, 02:48 AM   #2
BillJ
Admiral
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: T'Pau should have been ticked ...

Well, if Kirk is dead then she has to explain why she allowed a human starship captain into a ritual combat which the Vulcans seem to want to keep hush-hush.

Things would seem to have worked out perfectly from her angle.
__________________
I'm not popular enough to be different! - Homer Simpson
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 27 2012, 03:02 AM   #3
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: T'Pau should have been ticked ...

The point is that, as far as anyone actually in the ceremony was concerned (and by that we mean, Spock and T'Pring), Kirk was indeed dead. That is the whole point of it. T'Pring is supposed to notice that one of the combatants killed the other. As far as she knew, that is exactly what happened.
__________________
Taysiders in Space. In amungst ye!

"Set phasers tae malky!"
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 27 2012, 03:35 AM   #4
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: T'Pau should have been ticked ...

Honestly, T'Pau botched the whole situation from the beginning. As in maybe she should have made it clear to the obviously clueless Kirk that it was a challenge to the death before things got too far?
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 27 2012, 03:40 AM   #5
scotpens
Vice Admiral
 
scotpens's Avatar
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: T'Pau should have been ticked ...

^^ Maybe T'Pau had a twisted sense of humor.

"Oh, by the way, Captain Kirk, this combat is to the death. Surprise!"
__________________
“All the universe or nothingness. Which shall it be, Passworthy? Which shall it be?”
scotpens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 27 2012, 01:48 PM   #6
Gov Kodos
Vice Admiral
 
Gov Kodos's Avatar
 
Location: Gov Kodos Regretably far from Boston
Re: T'Pau should have been ticked ...

Death doesn't necessarily have to be dealt out, it could just be taken as an allowable outcome. If someone is rendered unconscious or otherwise incapable of fighting there is nothing that says the contest could not be brought to an end. Death is just the likely outcome for one or even both combatants given the state Pon Farr puts the combatants in, not necessarily that one must be executed for the fight to end.
__________________
“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” Rumi
Gov Kodos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 27 2012, 02:09 PM   #7
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: T'Pau should have been ticked ...

We don't know T'Pau's agenda here. But whatever it was, sticking to the letter of ancient ceremony is an unlikely candidate.

T'Pau gets dragged to the ancient fighting grounds of the Sarek estate, to oversee a ceremony involving his radical, estranged son, while Sarek himself refuses to attend. T'Pau then learns that this is all part of a scheme by T'Pring, a perversion of the original ceremony to start with.

Does she approve of T'Pring's logical exploiting of an illogical ritual? Well, she might, if she had been informed of the plan beforehand. As matters stand, she's probably just pissed off and wants to see T'Pring burn. Plus, she apparently has more sympathy for Spock than for the officer's queer father.

All this considered, I just can't see the supposed hardened politician side with the letter of the ritual against the beneficial outcome thereof.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 27 2012, 02:52 PM   #8
Garrovick
Commander
 
Garrovick's Avatar
 
Location: wallowing in a pool of emotion
Re: T'Pau should have been ticked ...

I don't think T'Pau would have made a diplomatic fuss over what McCoy did for the reason that it would have led to a lot of uncomfortable questions about why Kirk was supposed to die in ritual combat on Vulcan in the first place. The Koon-ut-Kalifee ritual isn't exactly supposed to be public knowledge, after all.

Actually, if Kirk had in fact died, I imagine Starfleet would have at least tried to investigate the matter - I'm sure that the Vulcan authorities would have come up with some kind of "regrettable accident" excuse, but I don't know if that would have worked since Spock planned to resign his commission and turn himself in at the nearest Starbase. I also don't really see McCoy keeping silent about the whole thing, he'd doubtless have been fuming. T'Pring may have been technically within her rights to do what she did, but I imagine T'Pau (and Sarek) wasn't happy with her at all. T'Pau may have actually been relieved the way things worked out, although I'm sure she'd never admit it.

I do imagine T'Pau was probably pretty angry at McCoy, though - he did tell a bald-faced lie to her and get away with it, after all. It would have been interesting to see the two of them meet again in another episode...
Garrovick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 27 2012, 04:38 PM   #9
Brutal Strudel
Rear Admiral
 
Brutal Strudel's Avatar
 
Location: Here, frozen between time and place, not even the brightest lights escape...
Re: T'Pau should have been ticked ...

It took me years to realize that Bones was the true hero of this episode. I love how he coldly says, "You're gonna have to kill him, Jim" just as he shoots Kirk up with a substance that guarantees no one will have to die. It makes perfect sense that Bones should be the hero, too, since the villain of the piece is ultimately biology itself.

Oh, and in the novel The Vulcan Academy Murders, T'Pau is miffed that Kirk is alive but not enough to cause an interstellar incident. I prefer to think she places a Vulcan respect for life above a Vulcan devotion to (very unpleasant) tradition.
__________________
Once every lifetime, we're swallowed by the whale.
Brutal Strudel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 27 2012, 05:50 PM   #10
CorporalCaptain
Vice Admiral
 
CorporalCaptain's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: T'Pau should have been ticked ...

I find it more like than not that T'Pau realized the probability that McCoy was slipping Kirk a mickey. I think she was impressed by the spunkiness of it.
__________________
John
CorporalCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 27 2012, 08:35 PM   #11
Ronald Held
Rear Admiral
 
Location: On the USS Sovereign
Re: T'Pau should have been ticked ...

Since thing worked out politically and ritually, there is no logical reason for T'Pau to do anything officially
Ronald Held is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 27 2012, 08:42 PM   #12
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: T'Pau should have been ticked ...

What's T'Pau going to do, have the Vulcan's lodge an offical protest?

As others have said it could bring a lot of unwanted attention.

There is also the possibility that Kirk did indeed die, but was brought back onboard the Enterprise. Remember the ceremony was ancient, no doubt preceeding technology that could bring someone back to life.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 27 2012, 10:50 PM   #13
A beaker full of death
Vice Admiral
 
A beaker full of death's Avatar
 
Re: T'Pau should have been ticked ...

She probably wrote it off as typical human (and half-human) behavior.
__________________
"shall not be infringed" is naturally open to infringements of all kinds, because shut up and think of the children.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/...#ixzz2ImW0V3GV
A beaker full of death is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28 2012, 12:00 AM   #14
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: T'Pau should have been ticked ...

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
T'Pau realized the probability that McCoy was slipping Kirk a mickey. I think she was impressed by the spunkiness of it.
Yeah, T'Pau probably appreciated a bit of Heart and Soul.
__________________
Taysiders in Space. In amungst ye!

"Set phasers tae malky!"
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 28 2012, 01:23 AM   #15
Timewalker
Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady
 
Timewalker's Avatar
 
Location: In many different universes, simultaneously.
Re: T'Pau should have been ticked ...

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
Death doesn't necessarily have to be dealt out, it could just be taken as an allowable outcome. If someone is rendered unconscious or otherwise incapable of fighting there is nothing that says the contest could not be brought to an end. Death is just the likely outcome for one or even both combatants given the state Pon Farr puts the combatants in, not necessarily that one must be executed for the fight to end.
Uh-uh. T'Pau made it very clear that "this combat is to the death."

There is a Valjiir-universe fanfic where Spock later meets a woman (another Enterprise science officer) and wants to marry her. Everything seems to be going fine until T'Pring files the Vulcan equivalent of a lawsuit, claiming that she and Spock are still married - since "nobody died." It's a rather interesting take on the Vulcan judicial system.
__________________
"Let's give it to Riker. He'll eat anything!"

For some great Original Series fanfic, check out the Valjiir Continuum!
Timewalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:15 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.