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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate The Eternal Tide.
Outstanding 82 49.40%
Above Average 50 30.12%
Average 27 16.27%
Below Average 2 1.20%
Poor 5 3.01%
Voters: 166. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 16 2012, 06:38 PM   #376
shanejayell
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

And finished it, by the way. *lol* Above Average, I think. Technically very good writing, but the story.... eh. I'm frankly VERY very disappointed with the Eden storyline. She is a fascinating character with such potential and I feel like it's been flushed down the drain.
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Old September 16 2012, 07:41 PM   #377
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Halliwell wrote: View Post
Maybe as far as canon and but even that's a cheat since the 2009 movies has Kirk alive and well. And I find the well he's dead in the novelverse argument light a well because Simon and Shuster brought Kirk back from the dead not two years later with The Return by Williams Shatner. They can scream all they want that it's not the same continuity but they sold a line of books that brought back Kirk. Fans of his could read stories with him in it while fans of KJ could not.
Let's fact-check that, shall we? Facts are cool.

Before Dishonor was published in October 2007; The Eternal Tide came out in September 2012, just under five years later. In between, we saw Kathryn Janeway at least briefly in the following works:

Alien Spotlight: Borg -- Jan. 2008
Myriad Universes: Infinity's Prism: Places of Exile -- Aug. 2008
Myriad Universes: Echoes and Refractions: A Gutted World -- Sep. 2008
Full Circle -- Apr. 2009
DTI: Watching the Clock -- May 2010

Granted, it's not a wealth of material, and three of them are brief appearances, but the other two are major, featured roles in Voyager novels. And that's five appearances in three years, which is more than most DS9 characters managed to get in that same timespan. For a character who was dead in the main continuity, that's not bad. So there certainly wasn't some kind of absolute ban on Janeway fiction. And I should know, since I'm the one who wrote 40% of the listed works. I've certainly done my part to keep her visible during this supposed period when her fans "could not" read about her.

Of course, let's keep in mind that she's back now, so what is there to complain about anymore?
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Old September 16 2012, 08:47 PM   #378
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

People will ALWAYS find something to complain about. It's a rule I think.

For instance I'm considering starting up a 'Bring Back Afsarah Eden' campaign. Any takers? *lol*
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Old September 16 2012, 08:53 PM   #379
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

shanejayell wrote: View Post
For instance I'm considering starting up a 'Bring Back Afsarah Eden' campaign. Any takers? *lol*
You've already got the perfect campaign song for it!

Bring back Caaaap... tain Eden...
Yeahhh, brother...
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Old September 17 2012, 05:37 PM   #380
hbquikcomjamesl
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Too bad the SNW fanfic anthology series is no longer with us: The "Speculations" section would have been the perfect place to see a story about Eden, q, and Amanda in the Omega Continuum (given time, they'd probably end up running the place).
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Old September 17 2012, 08:46 PM   #381
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Amusingly I've already thought of a way to bring back Junior and Eden that (I think) doesn't violate anything in the story. Possibly Amanda too. Might write it up as a drabble or something & post it on the fanfiction board.
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Old September 17 2012, 08:49 PM   #382
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Trek is full of stories about cheating death, so I am all for bringing them back if it tells a GOOD story. Resurrections should always serve the story not the other way around.
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Old September 18 2012, 07:26 PM   #383
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

My review of the novel is now up over at Unreality SF: http://unreality-sf.net/2012/09/18/s...l-tide-review/
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Old September 18 2012, 07:39 PM   #384
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

*claps*

Firmly agree with all of your review. It really does feel kind of like a big 'reset' button has been pushed and we're right back to Homecoming. And I certainly wish Eden had been kept, damn it...


Also, something else....

I also found myself kind of stunned by Janeway instantly being put in command too. I mean, YES the Doctor is vouching it's her, but... she's just been BORGED, KILLED and RESURRECTED. Psychologically there would be questions if she was in any shape to command.
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Old September 18 2012, 07:42 PM   #385
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Just finished the book last night. Was a very intriguing book and thouroughly enjoyed it. I will miss Eden character as I really grown to like her, so i was a bit sad to see her go. Even though I am not a huge fan of 'Q' stories, Kristen Beyer did a great job in this book. Look forward to more of her writings.
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Old September 19 2012, 06:38 PM   #386
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

The "right or wrong to kill Janeway" debate rages on, I see. At this point it is beating a dead and then resurrected horse. Don't kill it again!

My review:
I really enjoyed this book. I trusted that IF Beyer wrote Janeway back in, she would do it in a good way that worked for the story and not just to pacify certain fans. The book was interesting, well paced, and did a great job developing canon and relaunch characters alike. Eternal tide was also great and original science fiction in how it developed the concept of the balancing of the multiverse’s creative and destructive continuums which seemed to build upon DTI’s concept of the multiverse having wave patterns where nature continually tries to correct and balance itself. Beyer also handled the issue of mortality superbly. With every book, I think Beyer continues to elevate herself among the great star trek writers in how masterfully she handles the characters and theoretical science subjects.

My big concern now is the same Janeway and Chakotay had in the end- is this the end of the Full Circle fleet? My favorite line in the whole book was, “We can’t keep going through ships out here like we used to go through shuttles.” Ohhh, so true. Most of us have probably been involved in a “Where did Voyager get all those shuttles” conversation. Now the fleet is losing ships left and right. The Children of the Storm destroyed one ship and crashed another. Now Starfleet officers decide to blow up a few more after a brief time in omega because it was the only way to save the multiverse and the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. I agree with the sentiment, but didn’t the y give up kind of quickly? Shouldn’t they have thought on the matter a little longer and maybe given the rest of the fleet a little more time to come up with another solution? But my issue with losing the ships is not just with the Starfleeters but with Beyer. Did she need to leave those ships undestroyed? Q Jr managed to bring back Janeway and Chakotay, couldn’t he (or Eden) have saved those ships and crew with his final moments as well? Janeway and Ransom managed to keep their singular 2 ships and crews alive for years. Now the fleet is decimated in months.

That said, whatever the multiverse has in store for the Voyager series, hopefully everyone can trust this series will be in great shape if it continues in the hands of Kirsten “MFing” Beyer.
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Old September 19 2012, 06:39 PM   #387
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Some side thoughts of mine I jotted down while reading:
Funny that Q Jr thinks the multiverse had it out for Janeway. I chuckled thinking, “Janeway managed to piss off the entire Delta Quadrant AND the fabric of space-time itself!

Why are Starfleet officers debating the ethicalness of Starfleet having fighters with no use for peaceful exploration as if it is something new? The Defiant-class was created to be a warship, not an exploration cruiser. This isn’t a new concept.

I enjoyed the discussion between Q and Q Jr about the pros and cons of resurrecting Janeway because it reminded me of the many discussions fans have had on this subject. It was like Beyer took discussions on the subject from the BBS boards and worked them into that discussion in a flowing, rational manner.

What is the Conection between Q Jr, Kol, and Kes? I didn’t know Q Jr had interacted with the Ocampa or that anything had been written on Kes after her leaving Voyager the second time. Can anyone tell me when and where Kes’s story was continued?

I don’t like that Voyager and Achilles attacked the Tarkons, destroying several ships and killing many to rescue the Borg on one of their planets. What gave them the right to undergo such an operation in someone else’s sovereign territory and kill several of their citizens? I felt like it was the same old Voyager, pissing off the DQ and not displaying the evolved sensibilities and higher moral standards of Star Trek. Later, other captains encounter the Malons and say they would like to stop their dumping but their mission is not to interfere, conquer, or coerce. I guess Voyager itself just doesn’t get this.

Why can’t the Q remember Amanda Rogers but the Starfleet officers appear to have records of her? Am I mistaken? What exactly happened to Amanda, I am confused as to what killed her.

If Eden was made directly from the genetic material of one man and shared his appearance, why is he an uncle and not a father?

Intrepids have saucer separation capability?

So what happens to Janeway’s monument now that she is back from the dead?
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Old September 19 2012, 08:16 PM   #388
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I do wonder if this will be the last Voyager novel for a while?
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Old September 19 2012, 08:45 PM   #389
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
What is the Conection between Q Jr, Kol, and Kes? I didn’t know Q Jr had interacted with the Ocampa or that anything had been written on Kes after her leaving Voyager the second time. Can anyone tell me when and where Kes’s story was continued?
I THINK this was in the String Theory trillogy.

MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
I don’t like that Voyager and Achilles attacked the Tarkons, destroying several ships and killing many to rescue the Borg on one of their planets. What gave them the right to undergo such an operation in someone else’s sovereign territory and kill several of their citizens? I felt like it was the same old Voyager, pissing off the DQ and not displaying the evolved sensibilities and higher moral standards of Star Trek. Later, other captains encounter the Malons and say they would like to stop their dumping but their mission is not to interfere, conquer, or coerce. I guess Voyager itself just doesn’t get this.
The Tarkons tried to take Voyager by force first. They retreated and only used force when they came back....
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Old September 19 2012, 11:39 PM   #390
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Voyager first entered the system not knowing anyone claimed it as sovereign space and defended themselves as they fled. The second time, they knowingly invaded the Tarkon's territory and attacked their ships. Sure they returned with the intention of saving innocent people, but they still knowingly violated Tarkon territory, attacked their ships, and killed their citizens. Do the ends justify the means?
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