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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old September 6 2012, 04:40 PM   #61
Braxus6352
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Re: Transphasic shields in the novels

Actually, I find that the Armor technology voyager used in Endgame really isnt that far fetched based on the tech already shown as a staple in Trek. The Ablative Armor Generator Technology that Admiral Janeway brought from the future really is just a creative use of existing tech... Ablative Armor (found on ship's like the Defiant), Replicators (Trek tech staple since TNG), and Transporters (Trek Tech staple since TOS).

Ablative Armor is shown and described as a type of protective hull plating used on starships, which possesses a capability for rapidly dissipating the energy impacts from directed energy weapons fire. It works by burning away as the energy of the weapon makes contact with it... this happens through a process called Ablation, hence the name of the armor. This type of armor really isnt that effective against physical attacks, but still provides "some" protection. As the armor burns away, it dissipates the energy of the attack and reduces its effect on the hull beneath tremendously. The downside to the armor is that as it burns away, that section of the hull is exposed and is just as vulnerable as if the Armor didnt exist.

The Ablative Armor Generators shown in Endgame use the same stuff as the Defiant does, they just use it in a creative way to negate one if its major flaws... the disintegration of the armor as it is attacked. Using a combination of replicator and transporter technology, the Generators use the ship's own matter reserves (the same cache of matter that all Starfleet vessels use for their replicators) a reforms it into multiple ablative armor plates, the transporters then place the plates in a pre-designated position on the ship's hull. Now, the armor can act just as the kind on the Defiant does, but the beauty of this generator technology is that it replenishes the disintegrated armor as it is attacked. This replenishing effect can be sustained as long as the ship's matter reserves hold out.

Not very "god-like", unimaginable, or far fetched as far as i can see. Just a VERY creative use of existing trek tech.
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Old September 6 2012, 06:26 PM   #62
Christopher
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Re: Transphasic shields in the novels

^Yeah, as I've said, the concept could have been handled reasonably, but the implementation that we got was ridiculous. If it were a light ablative plating built into the hull as on the Defiant -- not interfering with thrusters, sensors, or heat radiators -- with the addition of a replicator system to replenish it as needed, that would make sense. But the "Batmobile armor" that materialized this huge thick layer of medieval plating around a ship? That's just stupid as hell.
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Old September 6 2012, 10:28 PM   #63
Blip
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Re: Transphasic shields in the novels

^ Agreed. Dumb, illogical, unrealistic, fanboy cartoon nonsense; I used to think the 3-nacelled Ent-D was awful....
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Old September 7 2012, 04:36 PM   #64
Markonian
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Re: Transphasic shields in the novels

By the way, I also wonder why Starfleet switching over to transphasic torpedoes. Now that the Borg are gone, there's no risk of adaption.
These torpedoes are capable of destroying enemies with ease.

On a less destructive note, why are photon torpedoes still in use post-2381 when we have quantum torpedoes?
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Old September 7 2012, 04:49 PM   #65
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Transphasic shields in the novels

Erm.... the same reason we today don't use nuclear weapons on every job that requires explosives?
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Old September 9 2012, 12:44 AM   #66
Markonian
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Re: Transphasic shields in the novels

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Erm.... the same reason we today don't use nuclear weapons on every job that requires explosives?
We don't use nuclear weapons on a daily basis because of their unwelcome post-explosion side effects, e.g. radiation. As far as I know, there's no such issue with the transphasic torpedo. I wonder, why isn't the Typhon Pact also concerned about them? If deployed, Starfleet could one-shot warbirds.

Unless, of course, the technology is kept back because it hasn't "officially" been invented and counts as pollution of the timeline. Though, with these massive changes post-Endgame anyway...

At least they are in regular use in 2409, though transphasic torpedoes are not as powerful as they used to be.
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Old September 9 2012, 03:46 AM   #67
Christopher
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Re: Transphasic shields in the novels

Markonian wrote: View Post
We don't use nuclear weapons on a daily basis because of their unwelcome post-explosion side effects, e.g. radiation.
No, we don't use them because we're not evil (hopefully) and don't want to take more lives than we must in order to defend ourselves. In most situations, they would be insane overkill and we'd be monsters to use them -- not to mention that it would bring down disaster on the world as other nations would feel compelled to use them to defend themselves.

The same goes for Starfleet. Standard policy is to avoid combat altogether if possible, and if it can't be avoided, to use precision fire against weapons, engines, and shields to incapacitate enemy ships with no more casualties than necessary. So obviously a weapon designed to stop the unstoppable Borg would be unjustifiably excessive to use except in the most extreme cases. Not only would it be stupid to use a sledgehammer when you're trying to use a scalpel, but it would provoke a proportionate response and create an arms race that would benefit no one.
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Old September 9 2012, 09:12 AM   #68
Edit_XYZ
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Re: Transphasic shields in the novels

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Erm.... the same reason we today don't use nuclear weapons on every job that requires explosives?
This is a straw-man comparison:

In star trek, photon torpedos ARE matter-antimatter warheads - nuclear weapons, capable of destroying a planet in seconds (this was repeatedly confirmed on-screen).
Which is to say, these "explosives" can destroy a planet/can generate mega-death events as easily as transphasics.

And these photon torpedoes are NOT sufficient for engaging and destroying enemy ships - star trek shields negate to a large extent their power.
Meaning, in star trek, "explosives" - matter-antimatter warheads - don't get the job done; not with any degree of proficiency, anyway.


In other words - despite Christopher's rhetoric filled with straw-men - photon torpedos are NOT, in any way or shape, morally superior to transphasics.
And transphasics are the better tool for starship combat.

Why are they not used? No objective reason, really - if you discount straw-man filled rhetoric, that is.
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Old September 9 2012, 11:24 AM   #69
Markonian
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Transphasic torpedoes in the novels

Nuclear weapons are overkill, of course. I hadn't thought of that. Sorry, my moral compass is unreliable.

The possible arms race is also a good argument. Still, Starfleet ships should keep them in stock for emergency situations or when outnumbered. Furthermore, an arms race is already in progress due to the current Cold War situation.

However, I am neither an engineer nor knowledgeable about military technology. Thus, when the Admiralty, Corps of Engineers and/or the DTI have goods reasons to keep the 'sledgehammer' out of hands, who am I to argue? All I have to base my judgement are the FX from Endgame and STO.

Now that I think of it, Nemesis would've had a pretty short battle with the Scimitar if Enterprise were fitted with one or two transphasic torpedoes.
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Old September 9 2012, 02:08 PM   #70
Christopher
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Re: Transphasic torpedoes in the novels

Markonian wrote: View Post
Furthermore, an arms race is already in progress due to the current Cold War situation.
Which is exactly why the Federation's goal is to cool that process down, rather than exacerbate things. The reason the US-Soviet Cold War got so out of hand is because both sides mistakenly thought they were defending against the other side's aggressive intentions, so it became a vicious cycle. It was basically about mutual fear and paranoia. The Federation needs to convince the Typhon Pact that they don't have to be afraid of Federation attack, that the UFP has no intention of invading, conquering, or oppressing them and will leave them alone as long as they leave the UFP alone. Unilaterally embracing a superweapon from the future is exactly the wrong way to do that.


All I have to base my judgement are the FX from Endgame and STO.
Well, the thing about STO is that it's basically a combat game, so it's biased toward the escalation of military situations. Naturally that's not the mentality one would expect from the Federation in a more plausible fictional context.
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