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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old December 14 2012, 08:14 PM   #751
22 Stars
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Thanks guys, my order still says "WILL SHIP IN 2-3 DAYS" Neil, what's up with that
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Old December 14 2012, 08:47 PM   #752
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Halfway through season 2, disc 3 now. It's surprising how much of the "Who Mourns for Adonais" score is based on the "Charlie X" score, with some interpolations from "Mudd's Women" and a bit of "Corbomite Maneuver." In fact, all three of Steiner's S2 scores are built largely around themes he used in S1. I wonder why I (and others, I think) find that so much less annoying when Steiner does it than when James Horner constantly reuses his own stuff. Perhaps it's because Steiner only recycled within the same series, rather than using the same motifs and set pieces in unrelated movies. So it feels more like a valid continuation and development process rather than just self-imitation. Also Steiner's choices of themes to reuse were pretty appropriate. There are a lot of parallels between Charlie and Apollo, right down to their final moments, so using the same themes makes sense. Using Eve McHuron's theme for Carolyn is a bit of a stretch, but it didn't begin until Apollo transformed her costume, so maybe the common thread is seductive illusions/artifice. The Romulans and the Terran Empire are both spacegoing bad guys, a bit of a tenuous parallel but a clear one. And the reuse of Andrea's theme for Kelinda makes sense since they're both artificial women. The Kelvans' theme, though, is a reworking of the motif for Mudd's women and the Venus drug, so that's harder to see unless we're back to illusion again.
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Old December 14 2012, 09:01 PM   #753
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Christopher wrote: View Post
I wonder why I (and others, I think) find that so much less annoying when Steiner does it than when James Horner constantly reuses his own stuff. Perhaps it's because Steiner only recycled within the same series, rather than using the same motifs and set pieces in unrelated movies.
Yes. When Star Trek III sounds like Star Trek II that's cool. It's continuing a series. When Aliens sounds like Star Trek II that's less cool.

I'll be interested to hear what you think of season 3. I may have to make an effort to explore it more. Because right now almost all of my "revisits" are 1 and 2.
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Old December 14 2012, 09:02 PM   #754
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Christopher, always great to read your analysis, perhaps you should team up with Mr. Bond on the very book that you were hoping for. I would buy that book.

Oh and I agree with the sentiment about Horner across movies/franchises.
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Old December 14 2012, 09:33 PM   #755
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

JimZipCode wrote: View Post
It does seem to me that, for listening to something very long, WTC or Goldberg or Art of Fugue or something like that, harpsichord gets pretty tiresome by about 30 mins or so in, in a way that piano does not. (Clavichord is probably a whole 'nother story.)
JZC - Maybe you've been listening to the wrong recordings? Hey, I get to use my education now - thanks.

Harpsichord registration changes allow a variety of sounds; although you can't make an individual note louder than its neighbors, you can use different combinations of sets of strings - but these changes in registration can be made only when there's an opportunity to do so (unless you have a pedal harpsichord, but most harpsichordists consider these inauthentic). I'll try to quickly summarize:

Italian harpsichords (of the era, and reproductions) tend to be the simplest and lightest. Generally they have only one keyboard (manual) and two sets of strings at the same pitch, called 8' (adopted from organ terminology) which can be used singly or coupled. 8' II will sound more "nasal" than 8' I because the string is plucked at a different distance from the end. (When coupled there's slightly more effort needed, because two jacks are being lifted at the ictus point rather than one; still less force than a piano key would need, though.)

At the other extreme are double-manual harpsichords, of the sort specified for the Goldberg variations. (It was very unusual for any particular type of instrument to be specified in a keyboard work, and indeed the Art of the Fugue doesn't even specify keyboard; there are some nice recordings by chamber groups and even a saxophone quartet). A double offers a much wider range of possibilities; a typical disposition is 8' II on upper manual, 8' I on lower manual, and 4' (sounding an octave higher) on the upper, with optional lute stop (which presses bits of leather onto each string for a muting effect).

The two keyboards can be physically coupled such that playing the lower also plays the upper, but the upper can still be played alone. So someone playing the Goldberg variations can choose at a minimum from among the following:
8' I alone
8' II alone
8' II plus 4'
With keyboards coupled:
8' I plus 4'
8' I plus 8' II
8' I, 8' II, and 4' all sounding together
Note that whether or not the keyboards are coupled, a double allows one hand to play one registration on one keyboard, the other hand a different registration on the other.

So a double allows a lot of variety between pieces (such as the Goldberg variations) and even within pieces. This is not to say, however, that a double should be used for all harpsichord music.

(My Roland is single-manual but still offers 8' I, 8' II, 8' I + 8' II, 8' + 4', and lute stop.)
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Old December 14 2012, 09:37 PM   #756
22 Stars
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

gottacook wrote: View Post
JimZipCode wrote: View Post
It does seem to me that, for listening to something very long, WTC or Goldberg or Art of Fugue or something like that, harpsichord gets pretty tiresome by about 30 mins or so in, in a way that piano does not. (Clavichord is probably a whole 'nother story.)
JZC - Maybe you've been listening to the wrong recordings? Hey, I get to use my education now - thanks.

Harpsichord registration changes allow a variety of sounds; although you can't make an individual note louder than its neighbors, you can use different combinations of sets of strings - but these changes in registration can be made only when there's an opportunity to do so (unless you have a pedal harpsichord, but most harpsichordists consider these inauthentic). I'll try to quickly summarize:

Italian harpsichords (of the era, and reproductions) tend to be the simplest and lightest. Generally they have only one keyboard (manual) and two sets of strings at the same pitch, called 8' (adopted from organ terminology) which can be used singly or coupled. 8' II will sound more "nasal" than 8' I because the string is plucked at a different distance from the end. (When coupled there's slightly more effort needed, because two jacks are being lifted at the ictus point rather than one; still less force than a piano key would need, though.)

At the other extreme are double-manual harpsichords, of the sort specified for the Goldberg variations. (It was very unusual for any particular type of instrument to be specified in a keyboard work, and indeed the Art of the Fugue doesn't even specify keyboard; there are some nice recordings by chamber groups and even a saxophone quartet). A double offers a much wider range of possibilities; a typical disposition is 8' II on upper manual, 8' I on lower manual, and 4' (sounding an octave higher) on the upper, with optional lute stop (which presses bits of leather onto each string for a muting effect).

The two keyboards can be physically coupled such that playing the lower also plays the upper, but the upper can still be played alone. So someone playing the Goldberg variations can choose at a minimum from among the following:
8' I alone
8' II alone
8' II plus 4'
With keyboards coupled:
8' I plus 4'
8' I plus 8' II
8' I, 8' II, and 4' all sounding together
Note that whether or not the keyboards are coupled, a double allows one hand to play one registration on one keyboard, the other hand a different registration on the other.

So a double allows a lot of variety between pieces (such as the Goldberg variations) and even within pieces. This is not to say, however, that a double should be used for all harpsichord music.

(My Roland is single-manual but still offers 8' I, 8' II, 8' I + 8' II, 8' + 4', and lute stop.)
I was JUST going to post the same thing!!
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Old December 14 2012, 11:29 PM   #757
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

22 Stars wrote: View Post
Thanks guys, my order still says "WILL SHIP IN 2-3 DAYS" Neil, what's up with that
You do realize that I'm a freelance editor and I work with La-La Land on producing albums and not in the shipping department, right?

Neil
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Old December 14 2012, 11:56 PM   #758
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Got mine. Yay.
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Old December 15 2012, 12:41 AM   #759
Dalen Quaice
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

I for one didn't realize you were freelance, Neil -- btw, was that you in the back by Santa in the La La Land Xmas party photo?
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Old December 15 2012, 12:51 AM   #760
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Yep, that's me.

Neil
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Old December 15 2012, 01:12 AM   #761
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Done with Disc 3. I never realized that each of the "Star-Spangled Enterprise" fragments in "Omega Glory" was a different bar of the anthem, and the cue numbers seem to represent their order. I would've liked to hear them put in order according to the anthem so that it would make the whole tune (with a couple of Trek fanfare interpolations), rather than what I assume to be the episode order.

What Steiner chose to do with library cues was very interesting, the way he pulled out these pieces of various cues to serve as standalone segments. For some reason, in the ones based on second-season scores, they're divided into separate tracks, but on the ones from "Charlie X" and "Corbomite," it's the whole piece straight through, but with breaks in the middle where one part trails off before the next begins, rather than making direct transitions as in the original.
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Old December 15 2012, 11:15 PM   #762
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Done with Disc 4. It's great to have "Metamorphosis" and "Return to Tomorrow" at last, though it seemed the audio quality on the former was a bit lower than it's been for most of the set, with more tape noise again.

The rest of Disc 4 is not exactly a highlight of the set. Duning's Nazi march for "Patterns of Force" is good (for a Nazi march, that is), but all those variations got repetitive; and between the last percussion-only variant and Fried's unused "Apple" percussion immediately after, there's a block of nearly 8 minutes of straight drumming. Although the Fried percussion was more interesting that the minute-and-a-half snare drum solo. And the Fried belly-dance music was less interesting than I'd expected it to be; I can understand why they replaced it.


Esteban wrote: View Post
Can anyone find the cue used in "Bread and Circuses" during the tag? "Caesar and Christ, they had them both". It sure sounds like Dunning but I can't find the original.
Apparently it wasn't Duning. It must be one of the Courage library cues on Disc 5, but I haven't gotten there yet.
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Old December 15 2012, 11:59 PM   #763
Dalen Quaice
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

I gather the music cue sheets are not included in the set booklet, else you could just look it up to see?

Are those in the book, "The Music of Star Trek" in entirety (I don't have this book)? Is there a way to get exact copies of the original typed cue sheets, not molested retypeset versions?
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Old December 16 2012, 01:19 AM   #764
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

^The cue sheets are not in the notes, and Music of ST only has some of them.

Done with Disc 5. The ending cue for "Bread and Circuses" is Track 25, the "Smooth Neutral Ship Theme" library cue by Courage. Which, if you ask me, is misnamed. It's more stirring than neutral.

Matlovsky's "I, Mudd" score is more interesting than I remembered. Not exactly easy listening, rather edgy and experimental, but it has its nice bits. I wonder, though -- was any of Matlovsky's work tracked into other episodes? I don't remember hearing any of it reused.

No surprises in the "Tribbles" score since most of it was released before by GNP. I would note that there's a bit of an error in the liner notes, saying Cyrano demonstrated the tribble invasion of "his establishment" when it was the bartender who demonstrated it to Cyrano. There's a typo in the "I, Mudd" notes too, identifying "Stella 500" as "Stella's Response."

The Courage library cues are the highlight of the disc and quite a revelation. It's striking how many of season 2's memorable cues were done by Courage without credit. We know "Ship in Orbit" was used in "Catspaw" and probably elsewhere; "Sad and Thoughtful on Captain's Theme" (at least its middle portion) climaxed "Mirror, Mirror" and "Fight on Captain's Theme" was used twice therein; "Smooth Neutral Ship Theme" ended "Bread and Circuses"; and "Captain Playoff No. 1 (Heavy)" and a couple of the "Stingers" were both used onscreen, though I can't think of specific instances. I don't recall the other library-only cues getting used.

And I was almost right about the "pingier" version of "Monster Illusion" I remembered being a library re-recording, but it was this one for the second season, not the third. I forgot it was used in season 2 for the Mako root sequence in "A Private Little War." The orchestration must've been different because they didn't have the "magic box" (modified organ) to produce the ostinato.

The Courage-conducted versions of Steiner's cues are interesting -- I realize I recognize these different versions but was never entirely sure I was right to think they were different. The orchestration is different on a lot of them, with bass clarinet taking the place of double bass.

The "Metamorphosis" cues listed under "Alternates and Outtakes" sound like they were recorded as library versions, so I wonder why they weren't listed that way.
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Old December 16 2012, 01:44 AM   #765
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Tallguy wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
I wonder why I (and others, I think) find that so much less annoying when Steiner does it than when James Horner constantly reuses his own stuff. Perhaps it's because Steiner only recycled within the same series, rather than using the same motifs and set pieces in unrelated movies.
Yes. When Star Trek III sounds like Star Trek II that's cool. It's continuing a series. When Aliens sounds like Star Trek II that's less cool.

I'll be interested to hear what you think of season 3. I may have to make an effort to explore it more. Because right now almost all of my "revisits" are 1 and 2.

and some of it has been used in Uncommon Valor, Titanic, Rocketeer as well.


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