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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: I want to see ...
... only canon characters (except for guest spots) 2 2.35%
... a focus primarily on canon characters 24 28.24%
... an equal balance of canon and original characters 48 56.47%
... a focus primarily on original characters 9 10.59%
... only original characters (except for the odd cameo) 2 2.35%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 5 2012, 10:00 PM   #31
Claudia
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Re: Going forward: Emphasis on canon or original characters?

Voted for focus primarily on canon characters.

I got into TrekLit to read more stories about the characters depicted on screen. I don't mind original novel-series within the Trek-universe. But if a novel is labelled as f.e. TNG, I'd like to read about the TNG-TV-characters, and not about the 3 or 4 characters left and the rest all new characters. Titan had a lot of potential in the original characters, but that somehow got lost...
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Old September 5 2012, 10:44 PM   #32
Markonian
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Re: Going forward: Emphasis on canon or original characters?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
[...] which means the canon characters are going to be getting up their in the age department so eventually they may end up needing to be phased out as it becomes more and more unbelievable that they would be active at their increasingly older ages.
This is the 24th century. These people can still be active action heroes until their centennial.
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Old September 6 2012, 02:46 AM   #33
DrCorby
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Re: Going forward: Emphasis on canon or original characters?

Markonian wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
[...] which means the canon characters are going to be getting up their in the age department so eventually they may end up needing to be phased out as it becomes more and more unbelievable that they would be active at their increasingly older ages.
This is the 24th century. These people can still be active action heroes until their centennial.
Yes, but it can still be carried to possibly-ridiculous extremes. We've had Uhura and Chekov (I believe) running around in action-hero derring-do in, what, their 130s? And McCoy's still around, even older. Now, I love the TOS characters, but at some point, it just becomes credulity-straining. Unless you introduce something like Niven's boosterspice into the society-at-large. But Star Trek, in all its incarnations, has been pretty inconsistent at really showing how old Federation citizens can live. But most of it has shown "older" people slowing down as they reach their 80s to 90s (The Deadly Years, Sisko's father, the admiral from Too Short a Season [yes, I know he also had a degenerative disease; still], Dr Soong). It's advanced medical science, not magic. Please don't strain our willing suspension of disbelief...

/rant
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Old September 6 2012, 02:48 AM   #34
Sho
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Re: Going forward: Emphasis on canon or original characters?

You might be surprised what "advanced medical science" will get us in that department over the next couple of decades, tho'. I agree about the in-franchise inconsistencies, however.
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Old September 6 2012, 02:52 AM   #35
DrCorby
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Re: Going forward: Emphasis on canon or original characters?

Sho wrote: View Post
You might be surprised what "advanced medical science" will get us in that department over the next couple of decades, tho'. I agree about the in-franchise inconsistencies, however.
And I may be proved wrong. But going by televised Star Trek, they were pretty conservative on life expectancy predictions.

What did McCoy say in The Omega Glory? I can do more for you with exercise and a good diet than medical treatment? True now and probably in the future...
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Old September 6 2012, 03:01 AM   #36
Christopher
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Re: Going forward: Emphasis on canon or original characters?

DrCorby wrote: View Post
Yes, but it can still be carried to possibly-ridiculous extremes. We've had Uhura and Chekov (I believe) running around in action-hero derring-do in, what, their 130s?
I think Uhura's role in the 24th-century novels was strictly administrative. She was masterminding events from her office at Starfleet Intelligence, not running around delivering high kicks.


But Star Trek, in all its incarnations, has been pretty inconsistent at really showing how old Federation citizens can live. But most of it has shown "older" people slowing down as they reach their 80s to 90s (The Deadly Years, Sisko's father, the admiral from Too Short a Season [yes, I know he also had a degenerative disease; still], Dr Soong).
It was never canonically specified how old Dr. Soong was upon his death. Memory Beta says he was 88, but that's based on the wildly inaccurate FASA Next Generation Officer's Manual, hardly an authoritative source for anything. Then again, Immortal Coil seems to say he was not quite 20 years old as of 70 years before the novel, which would put his birthdate about 6 years later than the TNGOM put it, making him only around 82 at his death.
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Old September 6 2012, 03:02 AM   #37
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Going forward: Emphasis on canon or original characters?

Markonian wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
[...] which means the canon characters are going to be getting up their in the age department so eventually they may end up needing to be phased out as it becomes more and more unbelievable that they would be active at their increasingly older ages.
This is the 24th century. These people can still be active action heroes until their centennial.
And DS9 mentioned the problems with that in regards to Elias Vaughn reaching 102 and how sooner or later he would have to give up active duty.
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Old September 6 2012, 03:19 AM   #38
NrobbieC
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Re: Going forward: Emphasis on canon or original characters?

DrCorby wrote: View Post
Sho wrote: View Post
You might be surprised what "advanced medical science" will get us in that department over the next couple of decades, tho'. I agree about the in-franchise inconsistencies, however.
And I may be proved wrong. But going by televised Star Trek, they were pretty conservative on life expectancy predictions.
I think it's about 140, based on what Dax said to O'Brien.
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Old September 6 2012, 04:56 AM   #39
JD
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Re: Going forward: Emphasis on canon or original characters?

Christopher wrote: View Post
It was never canonically specified how old Dr. Soong was upon his death. Memory Beta says he was 88, but that's based on the wildly inaccurate FASA Next Generation Officer's Manual, hardly an authoritative source for anything. Then again, Immortal Coil seems to say he was not quite 20 years old as of 70 years before the novel, which would put his birthdate about 6 years later than the TNGOM put it, making him only around 82 at his death.
Didn't they say somewhere in the episode that he had some kind of an illness? It didn't say anything about it on Memory Alpha, but I still swear I remember a quick line about him being sick.
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Old September 9 2012, 11:37 AM   #40
Drago-Kazov
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Re: Going forward: Emphasis on canon or original characters?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Markonian wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
[...] which means the canon characters are going to be getting up their in the age department so eventually they may end up needing to be phased out as it becomes more and more unbelievable that they would be active at their increasingly older ages.
This is the 24th century. These people can still be active action heroes until their centennial.
And DS9 mentioned the problems with that in regards to Elias Vaughn reaching 102 and how sooner or later he would have to give up active duty.
If its not an overused character i am okay with some people going to Cerberus II and doing some rejunevation.
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Old September 9 2012, 01:47 PM   #41
Jarvisimo
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Re: Going forward: Emphasis on canon or original characters?

I tend to think of as a charcater's life expectancy being contingent upon their healthy behaviour in life. So Vaughn was active at 100-plus because he had been a field agent all that time, and the relatively advanced health service of the Fed meant that his earlier Bond-esque fitness really complemented what Federation science could do for him. The same applied to Picard, whose fitness in youth was mentioned on screen (the marathons, for example), which has resulted in science giving him a better old age.

But other characters like Soong or Joseph Sisko weren't top-of-the-line in youth, they probably ate too much unhealthy food, didn't exercise, drank too much, or whatever ... science couldn't repair them in that manner? Of course the ancient admiral in that early TNG episode doesn't quite fit this pattern.

I know this isn't exactly a watertight argument, but it seemed to fit in my mind how people could age in certain ways and others differently.

The only other thought I could suggest was some kind of post-birth genetic enhancement, to ensure that the natural degredation of human bodies and cells don't occur, and that people can therefore live longer, conceive after menopause, etc. But isn't that contrary to Trek's prohibition on genetic engineering? And we still have problematic people like Joseph Sisko and Soong
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Old September 9 2012, 01:51 PM   #42
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Re: Going forward: Emphasis on canon or original characters?

I also like how rejuvination is used in fiction by Dan Abnett for Black Library: but there it very much is an economic thing, connected to monetary wealth, which isn't very 24th century Trek, nor is it dependent on the character's youthful fitness.

Dan Abnett, Prospero Burns, pp. 86, 89 wrote:
Hawser found it all rather dreadful. He spent the evening with the elegant little purple box clutched to his chest and a sick smile on his face waiting for the interminable speeches to conclude. Of the many dignitaries and men of influence attending the dinner that midsummer night, no one was paid more deference than Giro Emantine. By then, Emantine was prefect-secretary to one of the Unification Council’s most senior members, and the common understanding was that Emantine would be given the next seat that came vacant. He was an old man, rumoured to be on his third juvenat. He was accompanied by a remarkably young, remarkably beautiful and remarkably silent woman. Hawser couldn’t decide if she was Emantine’s daughter, a vulgar trophy wife, or a nurse.

[...]

Hawser took a sip of his amasec. He felt slightly invigorated, slightly warm. He had become fixated upon Emantine’s hand, which was holding a crystal thimble of some green digestif. The hand was perfect. It was clean and manicured, scented, graceful. The skin was white and unblemished and uncreased, and the flesh plump and supple. There were no signs at all of the consequences of age, no wrinkles, no liver spots, no discolourations. The nails were clean. It wasn’t the gnarled, sunken, prominently-veined claw of a hundred and ninety year-old man, and prefect-secretary Giro Emantine was at least that. It was the hand of a young man. Hawser wondered if the young man was missing it. The thought made him snigger.

Of course, the prefect-secretary had access to the best juvenat refinements Terran science could afford. The treatments were so good, they didn’t even look like juvenat treatments, not like the work Hawser had had done at sixty, plumping his flesh with collagenics, and filling his creases and wrinkles with dermics, and perma-staining his skin a ‘healthy’ tanned colour with nanotic pigments, and cleaning his eyes and his organs, and resculpting his chin, and pinching his cheeks until he looked like a retouched hololith portrait of himself. Emantine probably had gene therapies and skeleto-muscular grafts, implants, underweaves, transfixes, stem-splices…

Maybe it was a young man’s hand. Maybe the skinweaves were why the prefect-secretary’s smile looked so fixed.
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Old September 9 2012, 04:31 PM   #43
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Going forward: Emphasis on canon or original characters?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Sho wrote: View Post
^ That's a nice way of thinking about it.
Plus now that I think about it the novels are currently in 2384 or 2383 which means their getting closer to the The Visitor/All Good Things/Endgame future era (though hopefully they use better uniforms) which means the canon characters are going to be getting up their in the age department so eventually they may end up needing to be phased out as it becomes more and more unbelievable that they would be active at their increasingly older ages.
I can't see Trek lit ever moving so far ahead of the TV series' that that becomes an issue. As cool as it would be to see the "Next next generation" come up and take over, phasing out the TV characters would be a big financial risk.
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Old September 9 2012, 04:51 PM   #44
Markonian
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Re: Going forward: Emphasis on canon or original characters?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
I can't see Trek lit ever moving so far ahead of the TV series' that that becomes an issue. As cool as it would be to see the "Next next generation" come up and take over, phasing out the TV characters would be a big financial risk.
I'm surprised. Now that main timeline TrekLit is independent from TV, they could go on in real time. Ten years from now we should well be into the 2390s.

Well, and I was hoping to see a fleshed-out future, going to the 25th/26th/29th century and the like. I mean, we want to get to know the Enterprise-F/G to J, don't we?
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Old September 9 2012, 05:08 PM   #45
Jarvisimo
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Re: Going forward: Emphasis on canon or original characters?

Beyond its inclusion in an Enterprise episode why do we have to have or think about future Enterprises? Why do these need to be the focus? For the crews, it's like the name is cursed! The benefit of Treklit is getting away from TV-centrism and showing that interesting things happen to other people - a la Vanguard, New Frontier, DTI, Articles & A Singular Destiny.

Otherwise we end up having narrow-focus cheese, like the Shatner books, the use of Sela in every Romulan plot for two decades of writing, and even the Klingon Empire series and its 'every Klingon from tv in one book' set-up, which suggest that only a few score people are important in the entire universe!
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