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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old August 4 2012, 03:21 AM   #31
Romulus Prime
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Re: How would you improve Insurrection?

Insurrection took place during the Dominion War. I would have had the Enterprise locate a "lost" Dominion ship that's set up a base in the Briar Patch. Same aspect of the "fountain of youth" thing except I'd have a breakaway faction of Jem'Hadar and Vorta characters trying to break free of their Founder and "its" faction, with ALIEN looking Baku caught in the middle of their scuffle. You can potentially throw in a couple moral dilemmas in this scenario - protect the Baku or protect the enemy rebels who want freedom but use the natives as shields from the Feds + the aspect of the "healing" power that's on the planet being used for either the Dominion or the Feds.


I dunno, I thought that up in 5min, so that's what it's worth.

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Old August 4 2012, 05:20 AM   #32
gottacook
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Re: How would you improve Insurrection?

Would Insurrection - or, let's say, any movie that followed First Contact - have been stronger if the story had derived from an idea or character introduced in a TNG episode? That was the case with First Contact (and of course with TWoK in the case of the first series). Given the results, it seems to have been a good idea.

So was that idea deliberately resisted in this case? Was the impulse to follow FC with a more pastoral movie with lots of location shooting so strong that the attempt to do an independent story a la The Final Frontier was the inevitable result?

Some months ago I read the Piller book online, and I found it more interesting than the movie in many ways - but I don't recall whether he addressed the independent story versus sequel-to-an-episode choice.
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Old August 4 2012, 02:15 PM   #33
sonak
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Re: How would you improve Insurrection?

gottacook wrote: View Post
Would Insurrection - or, let's say, any movie that followed First Contact - have been stronger if the story had derived from an idea or character introduced in a TNG episode? That was the case with First Contact (and of course with TWoK in the case of the first series). Given the results, it seems to have been a good idea.

So was that idea deliberately resisted in this case? Was the impulse to follow FC with a more pastoral movie with lots of location shooting so strong that the attempt to do an independent story a la The Final Frontier was the inevitable result?

Some months ago I read the Piller book online, and I found it more interesting than the movie in many ways - but I don't recall whether he addressed the independent story versus sequel-to-an-episode choice.

I don't know about the whole "sequel vs. stand-alone" issue, but INS was a conscious decision to make a quieter, less epic action movie than FC. Their attitude was was why try to top FC in that category, because they'd just fail.
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Old August 5 2012, 04:49 AM   #34
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Re: How would you improve Insurrection?

BillJ wrote: View Post
But what motivation do the S'ona then have to give the radiation to millions?
Solely because it will help them, no other reason.

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Old August 11 2012, 01:58 AM   #35
DarKush
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Re: How would you improve Insurrection?

I thought INS was decent and I liked the Son'a, especially their ships. Though I felt that they were under developed, and wished they had showed up on DS9. But if I had my druthers I liked the original idea of the Romulans being involved. A potential situation that could drive a wedge between the Federation and Romulans in the midst of the Dominion War would've had much bigger stakes than even those involved in INS (though those stakes were very important too). Seeing the Jem'Hadar on the big screen would've been awesome too.

Also, I wouldn't have made the Ba'ku lily white. And I would've had a rejuvenated Picard romance Crusher instead of bringing in a one-movie romance. Lastly, the effects of the Ba'ku planet would permanently restore Geordi's sight. If for no other reason to give LeVar Burton a break from having to put in contacts after years of wearing that visor.
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Old August 11 2012, 09:06 AM   #36
Tiberius
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Re: How would you improve Insurrection?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post

You don't need to muddy the waters by making Starfleet officers conspire with the Sona to make it a moral grey area. That comes from the fact that the Sona are trying to do something that will benefit millions of people. Is it right to prevent that just to benefit a few hundred Baku? THAT is where the moral dilemma comes from.
But what motivation do the S'ona then have to give the radiation to millions?
Profit, pure and simple. Hell, the story could have worked with a group of Ferengi.

The Ferengi are studying the planet. They've told Starfleet they are there for a scientific mission, but they're really after the profit from the fountain of youth. Starfleet gets a bit suspicious of the Ferengi after a while, and they send the Enterprise in to check things out. The rest of the movie can go very close to the way it is with only minor changes.
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Old August 11 2012, 09:07 AM   #37
Tiberius
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Re: How would you improve Insurrection?

The Overlord wrote: View Post
If Star Fleet is fighting against the Son'a why would they be interested in the Son'a process in the first place? Such trades usually do not happen if parties are at war with each other.
So? That's another change. The Sona aren't working with the Dominion. I mean, Deanna raised a good point in the movie - why was the Federation working with them?

Plus if the Son'a are presented as just evil, how is this a gray area?

A moral dilemma needs muddied waters to work, Picard will be far more conflicted fighting against star Fleet, then some random aliens who are given no real redeeming qualities. If the Son'a are just presented as evil, then how do they make valid point and how is this situation gray?
The grey area is not "Who's the bad guy? Starfleet admiral or the Son'a?"

The grey area is, "Is it right to kick these people out of their home to gain what they have?"
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Old August 13 2012, 08:56 AM   #38
Drago-Kazov
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Re: How would you improve Insurrection?

Tiberius wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post

You don't need to muddy the waters by making Starfleet officers conspire with the Sona to make it a moral grey area. That comes from the fact that the Sona are trying to do something that will benefit millions of people. Is it right to prevent that just to benefit a few hundred Baku? THAT is where the moral dilemma comes from.
But what motivation do the S'ona then have to give the radiation to millions?
Profit, pure and simple. Hell, the story could have worked with a group of Ferengi.

The Ferengi are studying the planet. They've told Starfleet they are there for a scientific mission, but they're really after the profit from the fountain of youth. Starfleet gets a bit suspicious of the Ferengi after a while, and they send the Enterprise in to check things out. The rest of the movie can go very close to the way it is with only minor changes.
I don't think the Ferengi can carry a movie as villains.
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Old August 13 2012, 12:38 PM   #39
Tiberius
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Re: How would you improve Insurrection?

Regardless of that, my point about the moral grey area works. It works better as whether it is moral to force those people to move so that millions can benefit than the tired old cliche of "Oh no! The good cop has turned bad! Who can I trust anymore! is the sarge in on it too?"
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Old August 16 2012, 02:01 AM   #40
The Overlord
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Re: How would you improve Insurrection?

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Regardless of that, my point about the moral grey area works. It works better as whether it is moral to force those people to move so that millions can benefit than the tired old cliche of "Oh no! The good cop has turned bad! Who can I trust anymore! is the sarge in on it too?"
But why would anyone trust the Son'a to use benefit anyone besides themselves if they are just presented as pure evil? Why would Picard or any of crew have any problem fighting against a bunch of evil drug dealing slavers? If the Son'a are just one dimensional bad guys, I don't see how this is effective moral dilemma, when one side is represented by the best officers in Star Fleet and the other side is represented by.

Also the Son'a as just one dimensional greedy bad guys doesn't make them compelling enough to carry a movie, that's why you need Star Fleet to get involved in removing the Ba'ku, you can imagine that Star Fleet has noble intentions, but perhaps is doing the wrong thing to achieve these noble intentions, which makes more developed dilemma then the prefect Star Fleet officers vs. the mustache twirling Son'a.
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Old August 16 2012, 04:23 AM   #41
Tiberius
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Re: How would you improve Insurrection?

The Overlord wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post
Regardless of that, my point about the moral grey area works. It works better as whether it is moral to force those people to move so that millions can benefit than the tired old cliche of "Oh no! The good cop has turned bad! Who can I trust anymore! is the sarge in on it too?"
But why would anyone trust the Son'a to use benefit anyone besides themselves if they are just presented as pure evil? Why would Picard or any of crew have any problem fighting against a bunch of evil drug dealing slavers? If the Son'a are just one dimensional bad guys, I don't see how this is effective moral dilemma, when one side is represented by the best officers in Star Fleet and the other side is represented by.

Also the Son'a as just one dimensional greedy bad guys doesn't make them compelling enough to carry a movie, that's why you need Star Fleet to get involved in removing the Ba'ku, you can imagine that Star Fleet has noble intentions, but perhaps is doing the wrong thing to achieve these noble intentions, which makes more developed dilemma then the prefect Star Fleet officers vs. the mustache twirling Son'a.
Because they aren't shown to be evil until the Feds get their suspicions and send Picard and crew in to investigate.

And it's easy as hell to make the Sona more than 1 dimensional bad guys. The leader really thinks it is for the best to kick these people out so everyone can benefit from this radiation. If he genuinely believes he is doing the right thing, he's going to see Picard as the bad guy, isn't he?
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Old August 19 2012, 01:56 AM   #42
Kirby
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Re: How would you improve Insurrection?

Ballbearings... come on guys it's so easy, maybe you need a refreser course, it's all ballbearings nowadays.

I'd go more with Conrad's Heart of Darkness novella. Make it darker, don't just 'save Data' and make it all good. Have Data be the bad guy for a while, go up against Picard.
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Old August 19 2012, 01:29 PM   #43
JarodRussell
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Re: How would you improve Insurrection?

How would you improve Insurrection?
- make the Ba'ku less arian in nature and have more than 600 of them
- make clear that the old Ba'ku would die as soon as there is no more metaphasic radiation: the effects are only temporary and then they grow old to their actual age in a matter of hours or even minutes
- have some Dominion in it. Replace the ball dinner opening with a battle against Jem'Hadar cruisers.
- a Federation Council scene would widen the scope a bit.
- make the Ba'ku planet more alien. The rings and the nebula added to the background, especially in night scenes.
- make the Enterprise in the battle against the Son'a ships more active, attacking, firing torpedoes, doing some nice tactical tricks, playing hide and seek
- lose the kid/Data stuff, I was getting tired of "Data learns something about humanity" subplots.
- have some conflict between the Enterprise crew before they realize Picard is right. Like Geordi being euphorical that he's able to see before he realizes that people would have to die for it.
- lose the A British Tar scene
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Old August 19 2012, 01:55 PM   #44
BillJ
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Re: How would you improve Insurrection?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post

- lose the A British Tar scene
This is about the only scene I like in the whole movie.
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Old August 20 2012, 12:34 AM   #45
CoveTom
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Re: How would you improve Insurrection?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Go back before they started writing the film and make sure that Stewart and Spiner have absolutely no input.
That's pretty much the solution to the problems of all the TNG films.
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