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Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

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Old April 17 2013, 05:44 PM   #991
JoeD80
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Gary7 wrote: View Post
Yeah, but I'll take early SFX with actual models over early CGI any day. As the mid 1990's unfolded, CGI was improving dramatically. But unfortunately B5 budgetary constraints kept it on the older CGI platform, rather than revising to adopt significant improvements.
Babylon 5 was on the leading edge of CGI. I don't know what "older platform" refers to here. The Amigas? They changed to PC in season two. Lightwave was basically engineered around Babylon 5's needs and was updated season-to-season. Second season CGI already looks much improved from season one. Star Trek used the same CGI company later for a reason.

Danger Ace wrote: View Post
Captain Sheridan abandon his forces in the midst of war to confront The Shadows.
Um...what? That didn't happen.

Danger Ace wrote: View Post
And the entire fifth seasons was terrible.
Well that doesn't seem to be the conclusion in this particular thread; kirk may not have liked the Londo resolution but he seemed to like a majority of the fifth season episodes beyond that.

Last edited by JoeD80; April 17 2013 at 05:58 PM.
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Old April 18 2013, 02:30 AM   #992
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

JoeD80 wrote: View Post
Second season CGI already looks much improved from season one. Star Trek used the same CGI company later for a reason.
The work Foundation Imaging did for DS9 and VOY was better than the contemporaneous work Netter Digital was doing for Babylon 5, though.
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Old April 18 2013, 02:58 AM   #993
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Danger Ace wrote: View Post
Gary7 wrote: View Post
Anyway, Farscape is much easier to digest. Very entertaining stories and superb acting. If only they got 2-3 more seasons out of it. So much potential.
In a "Babylon 5 versus Farscape" contest I would have to go with "Farscape" - based on consistancy. B5 lost it, in my opinion, when the writing had the character of Captain Sheridan abandon his forces in the midst of war to confront The Shadows. It may have seemed justified in JMS's head, may have looked great on paper but failed in execution. And the entire fifth seasons was terrible.

On the flip side, Farscape was true to itself, came across as fresher both in style and substance.

Also, the fact that Farscape was cancelled was a major injustice. They consistantly gave the Sci-Fi Channel it's highest ratings (for the time) with brilliant demographic performance BUT the network didn't own the show so they pulled the plug on it.
I've never understood how anyone could say the entire 5th Season of Babylon 5 is Terrible? I know some hated the Telepath Arc in the first half, but, you got a bold end to The Telepath Crisis, you have the excellent Neil Gaiman episode, The very Long Night of Londo Molari, A View to the Gallery, the ratcheting up of the arc at the end of the First half, the entirety of the second half especially Sleeping in Light...

There's been a couple folks who have declared they thought B5 was all about The Shadow War, and everything after that sucked
I enjoyed the fifth season when I watched the show. It wasn't the best season, but I don't remember my enjoyment dropping to far.
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Old April 18 2013, 05:07 AM   #994
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

JoeD80 wrote: View Post
Babylon 5 was on the leading edge of CGI. I don't know what "older platform" refers to here. The Amigas? They changed to PC in season two. Lightwave was basically engineered around Babylon 5's needs and was updated season-to-season. Second season CGI already looks much improved from season one. Star Trek used the same CGI company later for a reason.
So was TNG. And yet, ships looked real. They had proper shadows and matte/semi-gloss finishes. B5 paled in comparison. I know, TNG did use some models, but they transitioned off of them later on. So there was something that B5 had not upgraded... or, it was the limitation of the artists on the job.
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Old April 18 2013, 05:23 AM   #995
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Gary7 wrote: View Post
So there was something that B5 had not upgraded... or, it was the limitation of the artists on the job.
I think it was a combination of different factors, mainly time, techology and money.
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Old April 18 2013, 05:25 AM   #996
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Gary7 wrote: View Post
So was TNG. And yet, ships looked real. They had proper shadows and matte/semi-gloss finishes. B5 paled in comparison. I know, TNG did use some models, but they transitioned off of them later on.
You're thinking of DS9 and VOY. TNG used models throughout its run. The only time the Enterprise-D was CGI was in some shots of GEN.
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Old April 18 2013, 05:31 AM   #997
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Kegg wrote: View Post
TNG used models throughout its run. The only time the Enterprise-D was CGI was in some shots of GEN.
And the closing shot of "These Are the Voyages".
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Old April 18 2013, 06:37 AM   #998
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

^
*cough*

...oh yeah, I'd forgotten that also exists.
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Old April 18 2013, 01:51 PM   #999
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Danger Ace wrote: View Post
B5 lost it, in my opinion, when the writing had the character of Captain Sheridan abandon his forces in the midst of war to confront The Shadows. It may have seemed justified in JMS's head, may have looked great on paper but failed in execution.
What are you talking about? Nothing of the sort happened. If you mean that Sheridan addressed the Shadow/Vorlon problem before the Earth civil war - it's a matter of priorities. When you have two races rampaging around destroying entire planets and capable of destroying all the rest, yeah, you try to attend to that before going to one insignificant planet with internal problems.

And the entire fifth seasons was terrible.
I believe that you meant to write "Season 5 wasn't to my taste." Because to me, having the conclusion of the Londo/G'Kar arc and some of the best stand-alone episodes of the entire series made it eminently worthwhile.

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Old April 18 2013, 06:05 PM   #1000
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Kegg wrote: View Post
You're thinking of DS9 and VOY. TNG used models throughout its run. The only time the Enterprise-D was CGI was in some shots of GEN.
Funny, I could have sworn I read otherwise... Something about how the Enterprise D looked a little less "real" after abandoning the model for CGI. Maybe they mixed up the details with GEN.

I do know that DS9 and VOY had models... at what point did they transition to CGI exclusively?
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Old April 18 2013, 06:09 PM   #1001
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Gary7 wrote: View Post
Funny, I could have sworn I read otherwise... Something about how the Enterprise D looked a little less "real" after abandoning the model for CGI. Maybe they mixed up the details with GEN.
Or you're mixing it up with the change from the 6-foot model (created in the pilot) to the 4-foot model (used pretty much exclusively starting in season 3/4).

Gary7 wrote: View Post
I do know that DS9 and VOY had models... at what point did they transition to CGI exclusively?
I don't believe DS9 ever went CGI exclusive - they didn't build a CGI model of the station until "What You Leave Behind". Voyager probably went CGI exclusive somewhere in seasons 3-5.
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Old April 23 2013, 11:36 PM   #1002
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Ok, I've gotten the opportunity to watch Crusade (minus the movie that leads into it). Now, I just want to know, what order do I watch it in? I've been reading up on all the things that happened with the series, and there seems to be several watching orders out their (Broadcast [which is probably the worst], chronological, and apparently a order JMS reccomended). I'd go with the JMS order, but I've read online that it can be a bit confusing for first time watchers, since its not in chronological order, but I also read that its a better way to watch than Chronological order.
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Old April 23 2013, 11:42 PM   #1003
Lindley
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Crusade doesn't have any one order which is 100% correct, unfortunately.....

I don't have a list handy, but my preference is to start with the black-uniform episodes that clearly come first, then run through the grey-uniform episodes, then finish the black uniform episodes. (The switch back from grey to black is explained by an off-screen "laundry accident"....)

Tentatively......
War Zone
Ruling From the Tomb
Appearances and Other Deceits
Racing the Night
The Memory of War
The Needs of Earth
Visitors From Down the Street
Each Night I Dream of Home
The Long Road
The Well of Forever
The Path of Sorrows
Patterns of the Soul
Ruling From the Tomb
The Rules of the Game
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Old April 24 2013, 01:32 PM   #1004
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Ok, I've gotten the opportunity to watch Crusade (minus the movie that leads into it). Now, I just want to know, what order do I watch it in? I've been reading up on all the things that happened with the series, and there seems to be several watching orders out their (Broadcast [which is probably the worst], chronological, and apparently a order JMS reccomended). I'd go with the JMS order, but I've read online that it can be a bit confusing for first time watchers, since its not in chronological order, but I also read that its a better way to watch than Chronological order.
Yea, TNT pretty much ensured things were gonna be screwed any way you go, but, you have to ignore the least amount of issues with JMS' recommended order, IMHO.
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Old April 24 2013, 06:25 PM   #1005
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

I'm still debating chronological or JMS's order, but I decided that, either way, I'd start with the episode TV viewers had to see first, War Zone. I don't know if I'll post thoughts on each episode like I did with B5, but I decided to atleast do it for the first episode.


War Zone – The mutineer's are understandable. If the Earth is quarantined, and they're from Mars, I can see why they wouldn't want to go there. The debris field was interesting. I wondered who these “alien attackers” are, but the weird Q&A at the beginning was nice enough to give me some info. It looks like the drakh are the ones causing trouble. The theme music isn't great. The riot stuff looks like stock footage. This plague isn't all that threatening, since B5 already showed that the Earth is fine for a few hundred years, until they blow themselves up. You'd think they'd drop the politics in cases of life or death, but I guess to politicians care more about getting their way then having the best team possible. The way the archeology thing is set up, with a lack of communications, seems like a dumb idea. Why are they repeating the mission statement? They just said it about 2-3 minutes ago. Are they going to repeat it every time a new person shows up?

Also, what telepath unpleasantness? the bombings from late B5 season 5? What are the new rules for telepaths? I can't believe there is actually a thieves guild I hope the mage's guild or fighter's guild will be represented on the ship. Maybe he can get an elven rogue or dwarf berserker to round out his party. The Excalibur looks cool. Is the first officer Psi Corp? He's not wearing the uniform, but I didn't think any telepaths were part of the military (not counting hidden/weak ones like Ivanova) and he doesn't seem like a rogue. Senator Exposition likes to repeat info the audience already knows. Its a little early in the show for the “I'll leave you to die if you don't help me, even though you're only a civilian” threat from the captain. Are the red eyed drakh guys in helmets? They don't look like the main one, and their heads look like helmets, not actual heads. They also kind of look like Predators. Obi Wan is interesting, although he could potentially be an annoyingly mysterious guy if done wrong. The fighting montage was kind of lame, atleast from a music perspective. The Excalibur's big gun is interesting. I'm kind of surprised that the Excalibur could take on three ships at once. I thought all the techno mages were gone forever. He's kind of creepy. Repeating the earlier Q&A is a bit annoying. This episode wasn't great, but I knew that going in, since even JMS doesn't like it. The exposition was heavy and repeated way too much, but the set up and characters seem interesting.
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