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Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

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Old March 30 2013, 09:28 PM   #886
flavaflav
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

When it comes right down to it, Sheridan uses everyone to install himself as a dictator who reigns for almost two decades. He uses the Minbari for their tech; the Narn, Rangers and Humans under his watch on B5 as cannon fodder; the League of Non-Aligned Worlds to strengthen his borders and as allies in war; and Telepaths as spies and as a few tactical nukes. The telepaths actually get off easy compared to how badly he uses everyone else and how many of their lives he tosses away. He is a typical military general who uses everyone around him as pawns to get what he wants.
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Old March 30 2013, 09:30 PM   #887
Gov Kodos
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Delenn's going to have a short, sharp talk with you.
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Old April 1 2013, 06:47 PM   #888
hyzmarca
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

That's pretty accurate, really. At the end of the day, the real difference between Sheridan and Clark is that Sheridan was simply better at accumulating power without pissing too many people off.
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Old April 1 2013, 06:51 PM   #889
DalekJim
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Dune is one of my favorite book series, I've read every one, even the ones Brian Herbert did based off of outlines his Dad wrote, and the prequels with Duke Leto and Paul set before the first trilogy The only ones I didn't care for were the ones set during the The Butlerian Jihad. I couldn't get through even the first of those books, but the rest of the series is great, although the original 3 (Dune, Dune Messiah and Children of Dune) will always be my favorites.
Awesome!

But wouldn't you agree Dune is full of "future spoilers"? I mean, in the first book alone they outright tell you throughout Paul is the messiah who goes on to overthrow the emperor.
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Old April 1 2013, 07:10 PM   #890
kirk55555
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Strange Relations - Byron can be a bit too melodramatic at times. Lochley once again proves that she's a horrible person. Garibaldi should have hit her instead of going for Bester. Its not that I can't see her side with this, she doesn't want Bester trouble, but she goes beyond not wanting trouble and is downright just being a bootlicker to Bester. She only goes against him because Sheridan forces her too. She's probably a big fan of what Bester did to Garibaldi. Brainwashing people to do whatever they're told? Then they'd be just like Lochley, except they'd still have more free will brainwashed then she does not brainwashed. The centauri liner explosion was surprising, although it makes sense that Londo has enemies who'd do that. It was cool to see Lyta confront Bester and his men. After the revelation we get this episode, Lochley's appointment on B5 finally makes some sense. Sheridan figures that with her there, he may be able to convince her and Delenn to have a threesome. Its so obviosu now. I mean, I already knew he didn't hire her for her intelligence, leadership skills or integrity, because she has none of that. He just wanted to prove that James Kirk isn't the biggest ladies man in Sci Fi (FYI, the threesome comment is a joke, so don't start posting long comments about how wrong I am about it. I shouldn't have to say I'm joking, but its better to be safe than sorry ). G'kar being Londo's bodyguard is great. Overall, this was a good episode. Unlike bad characters in some series, Lochley isn't ruining the show. She's kind of the character you love to hate, although not at the same level as Bester, who's that way because he's a great character.
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Old April 1 2013, 07:14 PM   #891
Lindley
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

I think Lochley's perspective is interesting. She hasn't been through all the things the rest have, so she doesn't have the inherent dislike of Bester that the others do. Her treatment of him isn't all that different than his treatment by Sinclair et al. when he first came aboard in "Mind War".
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Old April 1 2013, 07:21 PM   #892
kirk55555
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

DalekJim wrote: View Post
kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Dune is one of my favorite book series, I've read every one, even the ones Brian Herbert did based off of outlines his Dad wrote, and the prequels with Duke Leto and Paul set before the first trilogy The only ones I didn't care for were the ones set during the The Butlerian Jihad. I couldn't get through even the first of those books, but the rest of the series is great, although the original 3 (Dune, Dune Messiah and Children of Dune) will always be my favorites.
Awesome!

But wouldn't you agree Dune is full of "future spoilers"? I mean, in the first book alone they outright tell you throughout Paul is the messiah who goes on to overthrow the emperor.
I see what you mean, but it just felt different. Its not like they told us that



I'm fine with some stuff, B5's just got too specific for my liking.
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Old April 1 2013, 07:28 PM   #893
Lindley
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

All B5 has really told you is that in 17 years, Centauri Prime will suffer a massive catastrophe which is somehow linked to the Shadow War (interesting, but not very specific); that Londo will be Emperor (which you have known since Point of No Return); that G'Kar and Londo will kill each other (which you have known since Midnight on the Firing Line); and that Sheridan and Delenn survive that encounter, which is new.

The flash-forward scene doesn't reveal all that much new information about Londo, it just rearranges it a bit and gives it some context. It does provide some additional information about S&D. It's ironic that their first kiss from Sheridan's perspective is in that future, while for Delenn it doesn't happen until the Whitestar fleet reveal.
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Old April 1 2013, 08:10 PM   #894
JoeD80
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
I'm fine with some stuff, B5's just got too specific for my liking.
How specific can it really be if you haven't predicted any of what actually happens to Londo in the episodes since War Without End and you're already 1/3 in to season five now?
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Old April 1 2013, 10:45 PM   #895
kirk55555
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Lindley wrote: View Post
All B5 has really told you is that in 17 years, Centauri Prime will suffer a massive catastrophe which is somehow linked to the Shadow War (interesting, but not very specific); that Londo will be Emperor (which you have known since Point of No Return); that G'Kar and Londo will kill each other (which you have known since Midnight on the Firing Line); and that Sheridan and Delenn survive that encounter, which is new.

The flash-forward scene doesn't reveal all that much new information about Londo, it just rearranges it a bit and gives it some context. It does provide some additional information about S&D. It's ironic that their first kiss from Sheridan's perspective is in that future, while for Delenn it doesn't happen until the Whitestar fleet reveal.
Well, just because Londo thinks he'll be killed by G'Kar, or gets told by a "psychic" that could just be crazy that he'll be emperor, doesn't mean it will actually happen. Even then, I object more to knowing the Centauri homeworld gets trashed and he becomes the puppet of an alien with only very brief moments of control. It took any mystery out of their fate. Now, I have to worry about when Londo will stop being awesome and start being a puppet. Its not a great idea anyway, but if they had to do it that way, they could have atleast left it as a surprise.

JoeD80 wrote: View Post
kirk55555 wrote: View Post
I'm fine with some stuff, B5's just got too specific for my liking.
How specific can it really be if you haven't predicted any of what actually happens to Londo in the episodes since War Without End and you're already 1/3 in to season five now?
Londo gets killed by G'Kar, after being a puppet of an unknown alien for an unkonown amount of time (but, since the alien is already on the planet as early as late season 4, Londo's probably been a puppet from whenever he becomes emperor until his death, so it could be 15+ years of being a puppet, depending on when he becomes emperor). During that time, his home planet also gets trashed, and its Sheridan's fault. That was all shown, so, unless thats all just a fake out and we learn that as soon as Sheridan left G'kar and Londo got back up and laughed about how they tricked Sheridan into thinking he knew the future or some other trick, there isn't really another interpretation. Nothing has contradicted that, in fact the show just keeps supporting that (with the regent being possesed by the alien). Its not like it ruined the show, its just one of the very few screw ups in the shows overall story.
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Old April 2 2013, 12:09 AM   #896
Snatcher42
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
as soon as Sheridan left G'kar and Londo got back up and laughed about how they tricked Sheridan into thinking he knew the future
That would be awesome!
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Old April 2 2013, 02:09 AM   #897
JoeD80
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
It took any mystery out of their fate.
Unless you think the only interesting thing that can happen to a character is what happens at the end of their life, there were plenty of things so far that are not revealed by knowing Londo's ultimate fate, such as how he drives the Shadows and Cartagia away, or even what Londo and G'Kar's true relationship in 2278 is (which you are getting more of a glimpse of now in season five).

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Londo gets killed by G'Kar, after being a puppet of an unknown alien for an unkonown amount of time (but, since the alien is already on the planet as early as late season 4, Londo's probably been a puppet from whenever he becomes emperor until his death, so it could be 15+ years of being a puppet, depending on when he becomes emperor). During that time, his home planet also gets trashed, and its Sheridan's fault. That was all shown
The point is it's still just an end result from the year 2278, which hasn't once helped you predict what will happen episode-to-episode. And in fact there are still gaps that are not filled in yet to how Centauri Prime ends as it does.
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Old April 2 2013, 06:19 PM   #898
Lindley
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Now, I have to worry about when Londo will stop being awesome and start being a puppet.
Remember when Emperor Turhan visited the station?

It has occurred to me recently that I have never chosen anything. I was born into a role that was prepared for me. I did everything I was asked to do because it never occurred to me to choose otherwise. And now, at the end of my life, I wonder what might have been.
I wonder if JMS was trying to make a statement about an inverse correlation between power and free will.
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Old April 2 2013, 06:24 PM   #899
DalekJim
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
I see what you mean, but it just felt different. Its not like they told us that
I think Dune was pretty specific. Very early in the first novel they outright tell you that Dr. Yueh betrays Duke Leto, causing his death, and that Paul becomes Muad'Dib and leads a jihad. Irulan's passages at the beginning of each chapter tend to contain huge spoilers. One halfway through the book is about the Emperor reflecting on his loss at the hands of Paul, years after the events of Dune.
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Old April 2 2013, 06:53 PM   #900
kirk55555
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Yeah, you're right. It just never bothered me in Dune. Maybe its the different format, I don't know. It was just never and issue.

In B5, it didn't ruin to much of the modern day stuff, except when I have to worry about how long it will be until Londo is a puppet. Still, the whole future Londo stuff just ticked me off.
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