Farscape or Babylon 5? - Page 6

tomalak301 · August 1 2012, 01:38 AM

Reading this thread, last night I was watching some of my favorite clips from my favorite episode of the series, "The Way We Weren't", from season 2. I don't think there was any other series that did character development as well as Farscape did. You always hear the thing about you don't have to watch Season 1 to understand the characters. Well, with Farscape, you're cheating yourself if you don't watch Season 1 because of the consequences you see in Season 2. I watch clips of TWWW, understanding what has happened to both Aeryn and Pilot up to that point, it's a really rewarding experience, not to mention Black and Tupu/The Puppeteers pulled off a masterpiece in their own right.

I think that's why I love Farscape more than any other show. The cast was brilliant, the stories were compelling, and the show knew how to reward it's audience with timely revelations and fantastic acting. I can't say the same thing for most shows I've seen, including Babylon 5 (Which had great acting and great revelations as well, just not as good).

kirk55555 · August 1 2012, 03:51 AM

I just got extremely lucky. I was ordering from Amazon (my order of B5 came first yesterday with money I got early) with the rest of the money that I got today I was planning to order Elder scrolls 5: Skyrim for the PS3. I was ordering it for me and my brother, after that I was sure I wouldn't have enough money for another season, which is why I made this thread before I decided what season I was going to get. But, Skyrim was cheaper then I expected (I always buy used on Amazon) and, I was able to get Farscape season 1

I appreciate the responses in this thread. I didn't think I would be able to get both, so it helped make my decision. I'm SUPER excited to get both first seasons, and I'm sure I'll be getting more seasons after that.

Forbin · August 1 2012, 03:57 AM

Jeff O'Connor wrote:

I can definitely see how either series would have a hard time hooking someone early on, really. If my grandmother hadn't started watching the both of them, I might have passed them over as a kid.

I'm confident I'd have returned to them as an adult, given my ongoing interest in space opera settings, but yeah.

Grandmother?!!?

But... but... they were just ON. A few years ago!

Must adjust my brain clock to "old" some day.

Nah.

Jeff O'Connor · August 1 2012, 04:21 AM

For what it's worth, she was still pretty darn young at the time! She was only 48 when B5 started and 54 when Farscape began.

And you're on a roll, kirk -- Babylon 5, Farscape and Skyrim combined offer you hundreds of hours of entertainment!

Angel4576 · August 1 2012, 11:18 AM

^^ Indeed, he's only missing Mass Effect........!

Forbin · August 1 2012, 01:32 PM

Bad acting on B5: I don't think there was any from the main cast, but some of the one-shot background characters could be just AWful! The one I specifically remember is the woman and her family in down-below when Franklin was on his walkabout. The one when the kid's ball rolls up to him. She was projecting and waving and overemoting like it was a freshman high school play. Gah!

kirk55555 · August 1 2012, 06:09 PM

Angel4576 wrote:

^^ Indeed, he's only missing Mass Effect........!

I love the ME series. I own a PS3, and I played 2 & 3. I loved 2, and 99% of three (except the ending). They're the best sci-fi video games I've ever played, and they're just awesome in general.

Reverend · August 1 2012, 08:09 PM

kirk55555 wrote:

Angel4576 wrote:

^^ Indeed, he's only missing Mass Effect........!

I love the ME series. I own a PS3, and I played 2 & 3. I loved 2, and 99% of three (except the ending). They're the best sci-fi video games I've ever played, and they're just awesome in general.

Then you might notice something very familiar feeling about Babylon 5. I know that when I first played ME1 I had just such a feeling...

Forbin wrote:

Bad acting on B5: I don't think there was any from the main cast, but some of the one-shot background characters could be just AWful! The one I specifically remember is the woman and her family in down-below when Franklin was on his walkabout. The one when the kid's ball rolls up to him. She was projecting and waving and overemoting like it was a freshman high school play. Gah!

Not that I necessarily disagree, but I've actually met (completely bonkers) people who act *exactly* like that.

Also, I think the bulk of the hammy guest actors are mostly only show up in season one. Or at least that's where the worst offenders are contained. For me the absolute nadir was that telepath girl in 'Legacies'. I swear, either the casting director had a concussion that week, or she must have been some studio big-wig's niece to land that part.

Not to pick on the poor girl, but I happened to be watching 'Gone in Sixty Seconds' a few week back and...well, you remember that bit where the bloke had become a driving instructor and the girl can't drive to save her life? That's her. Am I crazy or is that some of the strangest cry acting ever committed to film?

Forbin · August 2 2012, 03:31 AM

How about that crazy-eyed bitch who was supposed marry Vir? There was some pretty mediocre acting!

Angel4576 · August 2 2012, 11:01 AM

I think it's fair to say that yes, some of the guest acting left a lot to be desired, and at times, some of the dialogue that Joe wrote was pretty clunky, but, ultimately, the weight of the ongoing arcs was more than enough to compensate for that short-coming. Not to mention that the acting from the primary cast was actually very good.

Relayer1 · August 2 2012, 12:17 PM

Neither. I thought Farscape was junk, and B5 flawed and badly acted for the most part.

I'd pick B5 if I had to...

Jeff O'Connor · August 2 2012, 07:51 PM

Angel4576 wrote:

I think it's fair to say that yes, some of the guest acting left a lot to be desired, and at times, some of the dialogue that Joe wrote was pretty clunky, but, ultimately, the weight of the ongoing arcs was more than enough to compensate for that short-coming. Not to mention that the acting from the primary cast was actually very good.

Yeah, pretty much.

Greg Cox · August 2 2012, 08:05 PM

Relayer1 wrote:

Neither. I thought Farscape was junk, and B5 flawed and badly acted for the most part.

I'd pick B5 if I had to...

Thanks for playing.

Kegg · August 2 2012, 08:28 PM

They're both basically good shows, both worth checking out if you like space opera TV (which as a peruser of the TrekBBS you probably do), although I'd consider Farscape the sigificantly better show in terms of acting, writing, etc.; Babylon 5 did benefit from a novelistic structure to its arcs and the ability to provide payoff for seeds planted years before.

stj · August 2 2012, 08:47 PM

When Farscape came to Netflix I was excited to start watching the whole series. I was surprised and disappointed to find I couldn't rewatch the series at all. I just couldn't force myself.

I think part of it was Moya. You can write "living ship" and "starburst" but it doesn't make any sense. While watching the convoluted plots and wild character gyrations of seasons two (partly I think,) three and four, being invested in the characters and what happened made it easier to ignore that. Then, on trying to rewatch, when I knew what happened and how the characters changed, Moya wasn't lost in the background. I know a lot of people feel a sullen rage at the insult of big words, but leaving Moya just there really doesn't work if you're paying attention. This is a huge problem for Farscape since Moya isn't just a cool prop but a kind of character.

I think the rest of it is the slovenliness of the characterization, the arbitrariness of the plotting and the wayward drift from the themes. The last is pretty clearly illustrated if you remember the visit to Earth, where the alien characters D'Argo and Chiana pretty much shout out that one theme is the folly of human triumphalism and the provinciality of sexual puritanism (embodied in the characters respectively.) Except you know that Crichton really was the savior of the universe (included the unmapped territories!) and even China didn't really sleep around that much.

By the end, Crichton and the crew, Aeryn with babe in arms, stride forth blasting the foe by sheer force of good looks and terminal coolness. Then, minutes later, Crichton rejects violence (

) and defeats the foe by demonstrating the folly of war with WMD. You can have your heroes win and you can have your heroes make a statement against war, but having them do both is having it both ways, which is no way.

As for the arbitrariness of the plotting, the return to Earth, which should have been the climax of the Crichton's story, was suddenly turned into the discovery that they had to leave Earth. Way to piss on years of motivation folks.

The amazing fact that Skarran intelligence depended upon a flower that didn't grow on their home planet asks how they ever got out into space. Ignoring the awkward moment, we saw Crichton and crew save somebody/everybody (who were they working for, again, as they did all this earthsaving stuff?) by blowing up the space garden where the flower was grown. Just the one? Then we discover that the flower does grown naturally...on Earth. Uh huh.

As to the slovenliness of characterizations, Crais' weird gyrations from villain to tragic hero were not understandable. I never could figure out what Aeryn really thought of the Peacekeepers. D'Argo was sometimes hyperrage and sometimes wise and kindly. Crichton was sometimes smart and sometimes a comic fool. Only the muppet characters were allowed to stay in one character. There is such a thing as character change but mulitple personalities is something else.

What was good about Farscape? There was quite a bit about it that was wonderfully well done, it's just not characterization, plot and theme. The dialogue was well done. The actors certainly were emotive (they had to be,) and getting to do many versions of a character certainly kept it fresh. The poplit humor was very well done indeed. The metafictional extravaganza, where the show consciously played with SF tropes, was also very well done indeed, a combination of light touch and affectionate regard rarely achieved. The set designs were wonderfully imaginative and owed nothing to Hollywood space opera. The music was good, avoiding Williams-lite but achieving the proper mix of exoticism and the familiar.

Most of all, the show had a determination to entertain that would admit no foolish embarrassments about being SF. It didn't follow the Enterprise schema of naturalizing the fantastic but reveled in the garish. It deliberately went over the top to entertain. The ride doesn't bear repetition but it was a really fun ride, once.

B5 however I can and have rewatched, and will again if I live long enough.

Spoiler coded after I was reminded the OP hadn't seen the series yet.

August 1 2012, 01:38 AM	#76
tomalak301 Admiral Location: Bay Area, CA	Re: Farscape or Babylon 5? Reading this thread, last night I was watching some of my favorite clips from my favorite episode of the series, "The Way We Weren't", from season 2. I don't think there was any other series that did character development as well as Farscape did. You always hear the thing about you don't have to watch Season 1 to understand the characters. Well, with Farscape, you're cheating yourself if you don't watch Season 1 because of the consequences you see in Season 2. I watch clips of TWWW, understanding what has happened to both Aeryn and Pilot up to that point, it's a really rewarding experience, not to mention Black and Tupu/The Puppeteers pulled off a masterpiece in their own right. I think that's why I love Farscape more than any other show. The cast was brilliant, the stories were compelling, and the show knew how to reward it's audience with timely revelations and fantastic acting. I can't say the same thing for most shows I've seen, including Babylon 5 (Which had great acting and great revelations as well, just not as good). __________________ Twitter

August 1 2012, 03:51 AM	#77
kirk55555 Captain	Re: Farscape or Babylon 5? I just got extremely lucky. I was ordering from Amazon (my order of B5 came first yesterday with money I got early) with the rest of the money that I got today I was planning to order Elder scrolls 5: Skyrim for the PS3. I was ordering it for me and my brother, after that I was sure I wouldn't have enough money for another season, which is why I made this thread before I decided what season I was going to get. But, Skyrim was cheaper then I expected (I always buy used on Amazon) and, I was able to get Farscape season 1 I appreciate the responses in this thread. I didn't think I would be able to get both, so it helped make my decision. I'm SUPER excited to get both first seasons, and I'm sure I'll be getting more seasons after that.

August 1 2012, 04:21 AM	#79
Jeff O'Connor Commodore Location: Tampa, FL	Re: Farscape or Babylon 5? For what it's worth, she was still pretty darn young at the time! She was only 48 when B5 started and 54 when Farscape began. And you're on a roll, kirk -- Babylon 5, Farscape and Skyrim combined offer you hundreds of hours of entertainment! __________________ Star Trek 1966-

August 1 2012, 11:18 AM	#80
Angel4576 Rear Admiral Location: United Kingdom	Re: Farscape or Babylon 5? ^^ Indeed, he's only missing Mass Effect........! __________________ I am a Ranger. We walk in the dark places no others will enter. We stand on the bridge and no one may pass. We live for the One, we die for the One.

August 1 2012, 01:32 PM	#81
Forbin Admiral Location: I said out, dammit!	Re: Farscape or Babylon 5? Bad acting on B5: I don't think there was any from the main cast, but some of the one-shot background characters could be just AWful! The one I specifically remember is the woman and her family in down-below when Franklin was on his walkabout. The one when the kid's ball rolls up to him. She was projecting and waving and overemoting like it was a freshman high school play. Gah! __________________ My kitbashes: http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbash/trekpage.html My Kitbash Wallpapers: http://www.inpayne.com/models/wallpa...allpapers.html My kitbash calendar: http://inpayne.com/calendar/kbcalendar2013.html

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ABOUT US

August 2 2012, 03:31 AM	#84
Forbin Admiral Location: I said out, dammit!	Re: Farscape or Babylon 5? How about that crazy-eyed bitch who was supposed marry Vir? There was some pretty mediocre acting! __________________ My kitbashes: http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbash/trekpage.html My Kitbash Wallpapers: http://www.inpayne.com/models/wallpa...allpapers.html My kitbash calendar: http://inpayne.com/calendar/kbcalendar2013.html

August 2 2012, 11:01 AM	#85
Angel4576 Rear Admiral Location: United Kingdom	Re: Farscape or Babylon 5? I think it's fair to say that yes, some of the guest acting left a lot to be desired, and at times, some of the dialogue that Joe wrote was pretty clunky, but, ultimately, the weight of the ongoing arcs was more than enough to compensate for that short-coming. Not to mention that the acting from the primary cast was actually very good. __________________ I am a Ranger. We walk in the dark places no others will enter. We stand on the bridge and no one may pass. We live for the One, we die for the One.

August 2 2012, 12:17 PM	#86
Relayer1 Fleet Captain Location: The Black Country, England	Re: Farscape or Babylon 5? Neither. I thought Farscape was junk, and B5 flawed and badly acted for the most part. I'd pick B5 if I had to... __________________ Soon oh soon the light, Pass within and soothe this endless night, And wait here for you, Our reason to be here...

August 2 2012, 08:28 PM	#89
Kegg Rear Admiral Location: Ireland.	Re: Farscape or Babylon 5? They're both basically good shows, both worth checking out if you like space opera TV (which as a peruser of the TrekBBS you probably do), although I'd consider Farscape the sigificantly better show in terms of acting, writing, etc.; Babylon 5 did benefit from a novelistic structure to its arcs and the ability to provide payoff for seeds planted years before. __________________ 'Spock is always right, even when he's wrong. It's the tone of voice, the supernatural reasonability; this is not a man like us; this is a god.' - Philip K. Dick

August 2 2012, 08:47 PM	#90
stj Rear Admiral Location: the real world	Re: Farscape or Babylon 5? When Farscape came to Netflix I was excited to start watching the whole series. I was surprised and disappointed to find I couldn't rewatch the series at all. I just couldn't force myself. I think part of it was Moya. You can write "living ship" and "starburst" but it doesn't make any sense. While watching the convoluted plots and wild character gyrations of seasons two (partly I think,) three and four, being invested in the characters and what happened made it easier to ignore that. Then, on trying to rewatch, when I knew what happened and how the characters changed, Moya wasn't lost in the background. I know a lot of people feel a sullen rage at the insult of big words, but leaving Moya just there really doesn't work if you're paying attention. This is a huge problem for Farscape since Moya isn't just a cool prop but a kind of character. I think the rest of it is the slovenliness of the characterization, the arbitrariness of the plotting and the wayward drift from the themes. The last is pretty clearly illustrated if you remember the visit to Earth, where the alien characters D'Argo and Chiana pretty much shout out that one theme is the folly of human triumphalism and the provinciality of sexual puritanism (embodied in the characters respectively.) Except you know that Crichton really was the savior of the universe (included the unmapped territories!) and even China didn't really sleep around that much. By the end, Crichton and the crew, Aeryn with babe in arms, stride forth blasting the foe by sheer force of good looks and terminal coolness. Then, minutes later, Crichton rejects violence () and defeats the foe by demonstrating the folly of war with WMD. You can have your heroes win and you can have your heroes make a statement against war, but having them do both is having it both ways, which is no way. As for the arbitrariness of the plotting, the return to Earth, which should have been the climax of the Crichton's story, was suddenly turned into the discovery that they had to leave Earth. Way to piss on years of motivation folks. The amazing fact that Skarran intelligence depended upon a flower that didn't grow on their home planet asks how they ever got out into space. Ignoring the awkward moment, we saw Crichton and crew save somebody/everybody (who were they working for, again, as they did all this earthsaving stuff?) by blowing up the space garden where the flower was grown. Just the one? Then we discover that the flower does grown naturally...on Earth. Uh huh. As to the slovenliness of characterizations, Crais' weird gyrations from villain to tragic hero were not understandable. I never could figure out what Aeryn really thought of the Peacekeepers. D'Argo was sometimes hyperrage and sometimes wise and kindly. Crichton was sometimes smart and sometimes a comic fool. Only the muppet characters were allowed to stay in one character. There is such a thing as character change but mulitple personalities is something else. What was good about Farscape? There was quite a bit about it that was wonderfully well done, it's just not characterization, plot and theme. The dialogue was well done. The actors certainly were emotive (they had to be,) and getting to do many versions of a character certainly kept it fresh. The poplit humor was very well done indeed. The metafictional extravaganza, where the show consciously played with SF tropes, was also very well done indeed, a combination of light touch and affectionate regard rarely achieved. The set designs were wonderfully imaginative and owed nothing to Hollywood space opera. The music was good, avoiding Williams-lite but achieving the proper mix of exoticism and the familiar. Most of all, the show had a determination to entertain that would admit no foolish embarrassments about being SF. It didn't follow the Enterprise schema of naturalizing the fantastic but reveled in the garish. It deliberately went over the top to entertain. The ride doesn't bear repetition but it was a really fun ride, once. B5 however I can and have rewatched, and will again if I live long enough. Spoiler coded after I was reminded the OP hadn't seen the series yet. __________________ Morals are what you do to other people. Other people, what we call society, are essential to human happiness. Therefore, morals are the path to happiness. My morals, your happiness; your morals, my happiness: It's a fair trade. Last edited by stj; August 2 2012 at 11:10 PM.