RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,675
Posts: 5,429,717
Members: 24,823
Currently online: 497
Newest member: voyagerman49


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 27 2013, 01:46 AM   #856
flavaflav
Commander
 
flavaflav's Avatar
 
Location: Illadelph
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

hyzmarca wrote: View Post
Spontaneous species-wide transformation like that isn't evolution, its revolution. That shit doesn't happen naturally, it requires some sort of intentional technological catalyst.
flavaflav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 27 2013, 01:51 AM   #857
flavaflav
Commander
 
flavaflav's Avatar
 
Location: Illadelph
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Is it such a bad thing to think that humans may actually turn out atleast ok, and have a good future? There can be a balance between Star Trek's humans and a more realistic approach. B5 isn't it. B5 takes it about as bad as it will go.
it's great to think humans will turn out alright, but B5 was taking a realistic stab at the future. Human history has taught us it won't be neat. To expect a tidy ending simply isn't B5.
flavaflav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 27 2013, 02:07 AM   #858
Leroy
Fleet Captain
 
Leroy's Avatar
 
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Kirk55555 wrote:
Is it such a bad thing to think that humans may actually turn out atleast ok, and have a good future? There can be a balance between Star Trek's humans and a more realistic approach. B5 isn't it. B5 takes it about as bad as it will go. I personally don't like that route. In the end, it doesn't really matter. In my head, the episode is not in continuity. Much like how I ignore the TNG episode that hobbled the Enterprise's speed (presumably because the people in charge were taking stupid pills) or that a lone ship in the Delta Quadrant broke the Warp 10 barrier, I'll pretend that humans don't revert to the dark ages, and that the whole episode just doesn't exist.
Humans turn out more than ok in the B5 future they eventually "evolve" into energy beings with incredibly advanced technology able to blow up stars on a whim while riding in organic spaceships.

The "great burn" is just a minor setback that doesn't really ruin the grand scheme of things for humanity all that much since the off world colonies and other places were not affected, that and humans from off world like the rangers were willing to donate their time and help the survivors advance and rebuild and not resort to a "too bad so sad, I've got mine" attitude they could have adopted but didn't.

You act like the dark ages was permanent and the human species goes extinct or something which simply is not the case.
Leroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 27 2013, 02:22 AM   #859
DWF
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Humans didn't blow up earth's sun their enemies did and it's likely that after a million years humans had finally gotten to the Vorlon homeworld and learned how to evolve like the the Vorlons did.
__________________
The greatest science fiction series of all time is
Doctor Who! And I'll take you all on, one-by-one
or all in a bunch to back it up!"
--- Harlan Ellison, from his introduction
to the PINNACLE series of Doctor Who books
DWF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 27 2013, 02:45 AM   #860
Snatcher42
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

So Deconstruction of Falling Stars is the next controversial episode? Hmm.

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
What about Mars, or the other human colonies? Earth would not be left alone to revert to the dark ages.
Isn't that exactly what the segment is showing? The rangers from other worlds and colonies are on Earth slowly re-introducing technology. The whole thing is shot from surveillance cameras they've installed in the monastery.

I don't think it's a pessimistic episode. The message is: yes, we're going to stumble and make more mistakes along the way, but in the end we turn out OK. Thanks in large part to people like Sheridan. The fact that his legacy remains a force for good a million years later is huge!

As others have said, in the last segment we've essentially become the next Vorlons. However, since we're shown archiving the history of B5, we've hopefully learned from it, and won't make all the same mistakes. Just like every parent wants their children to succeed them, we get a little bit better and better each generation. Vorlon, to Human, to whatever comes after us.

Last edited by Snatcher42; March 27 2013 at 03:02 AM.
Snatcher42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 27 2013, 04:38 AM   #861
JD
Admiral
 
JD's Avatar
 
Location: Arizona, USA
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Honestly, I like stories where things don't always work out perfectly, and where our characters make mistakes, and have to do bad things occasionally. Honestly, if everything always works out perfectly right away, and nobody ever screws up it can get really boring.
How's the old saying go? Things are always darkest before the dawn?
__________________
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett, Equal Rites
JD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 27 2013, 12:50 PM   #862
Reverend
Rear Admiral
 
Reverend's Avatar
 
Location: UK
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

flavaflav wrote: View Post
hyzmarca wrote: View Post
Spontaneous species-wide transformation like that isn't evolution, its revolution. That shit doesn't happen naturally, it requires some sort of intentional technological catalyst.
I don't want to get into a spoiler tag discussion since it's not fair to Kirk, but I'll just say this: -



But yeah, individuals don't evolve in that way, especially not species-wide. It just doesn't work that way. Evolutionary changes happen across generations in response to environmental pressures, usually by way of random mutation filtered through the process of natural selection. It'd make about as much sense as a subterranean cave dwelling species spontaneously growing wings.

Additionally, the Vorlons *weren't* non-corporeal energy beings as a lot of people assume. They were highly evolved, very old and extremely powerful telekinetic beings who were nonetheless physical creatures, as were the Shadows. Remember Kosh is poisoned in the pilot movie by a chemical compound administered through the skin and Dr. Kyle is able to read his vital signs and treat him. More to the point, Ulkesh was killed by a combination of direct current from a very large fusion reactor, a barrage of ppg bullets and the last remnant of another Vorlon trying to rip it's head off.

Indeed, when we finally see a Kosh and Ulkesh's true forms...well, just the fact that they *have* forms proves they're not pure energy beings. Granted it's hard to make out the shape, but I like to think they're meant to look something like Lovecraft's Elder Things. For some reason the idea of Vorlons evolving from some bio-luminescent deep sea creature appeals to me.
Reverend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 27 2013, 01:07 PM   #863
Gov Kodos
Admiral
 
Gov Kodos's Avatar
 
Location: Gov Kodos Regretably far from Boston
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

flavaflav wrote: View Post
hyzmarca wrote: View Post
Spontaneous species-wide transformation like that isn't evolution, its revolution. That shit doesn't happen naturally, it requires some sort of intentional technological catalyst.
__________________
We are quicksilver, a fleeting shadow, a distant sound... our home has no boundaries beyond which we cannot pass. We live in music, in a flash of color... we live on the wind and in the sparkle of a star! Endora, Bewitched
Gov Kodos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 27 2013, 01:18 PM   #864
flavaflav
Commander
 
flavaflav's Avatar
 
Location: Illadelph
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Reverend: I hear where you're coming from. However, we're talking completely different evolutionary processes. i look at the Vorlons and future humans as evolving not on a physical level, but on a mental one. Once that occurs, the species is completely aware and able to transcend there physical bodies to become pure energy. When Ulkesh and Kosh duke it out, the bodies are not physical in the normal sense. Their "bodies" are energy. If I remember correctly, the ppgs and electric current were used against the encounter suit, not Ulkesh's "body". Once Ulkesh let loose, it was Kosh and that little bit of Lorien who did the deed.
flavaflav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 27 2013, 01:22 PM   #865
flavaflav
Commander
 
flavaflav's Avatar
 
Location: Illadelph
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Gov Kodos: I think Lorien gave him a hit of acid and played Tool's "Third Eye" to speed up the mental process
flavaflav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 27 2013, 01:22 PM   #866
Gov Kodos
Admiral
 
Gov Kodos's Avatar
 
Location: Gov Kodos Regretably far from Boston
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

flavaflav wrote: View Post
Reverend: I hear where you're coming from. However, we're talking completely different evolutionary processes. i look at the Vorlons and future humans as evolving not on a physical level, but on a mental one. Once that occurs, the species is completely aware and able to transcend there physical bodies to become pure energy. When Ulkesh and Kosh duke it out, the bodies are not physical in the normal sense. Their "bodies" are energy. If I remember correctly, the ppgs and electric current were used against the encounter suit, not Ulkesh's "body". Once Ulkesh let loose, it was Kosh and that little bit of Lorien who did the deed.
I think that is where telepathy and certain genes are important in the evolution to the energy being state in the B5 universe. The Narns lost it, and the Centauri killed off the Xon, they lost huge chunks of their genetic heritage leaving them dying species as Kosh told Sinclair in S1. That is they are not on a path to that state any longer. The implication is more or less explicit in the S1 episode with Jason Ironheart.
__________________
We are quicksilver, a fleeting shadow, a distant sound... our home has no boundaries beyond which we cannot pass. We live in music, in a flash of color... we live on the wind and in the sparkle of a star! Endora, Bewitched
Gov Kodos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 27 2013, 02:38 PM   #867
Sindatur
Vice Admiral
 
Sindatur's Avatar
 
Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
flavaflav wrote: View Post
Reverend: I hear where you're coming from. However, we're talking completely different evolutionary processes. i look at the Vorlons and future humans as evolving not on a physical level, but on a mental one. Once that occurs, the species is completely aware and able to transcend there physical bodies to become pure energy. When Ulkesh and Kosh duke it out, the bodies are not physical in the normal sense. Their "bodies" are energy. If I remember correctly, the ppgs and electric current were used against the encounter suit, not Ulkesh's "body". Once Ulkesh let loose, it was Kosh and that little bit of Lorien who did the deed.
I think that is where telepathy and certain genes are important in the evolution to the energy being state in the B5 universe. The Narns lost it, and the Centauri killed off the Xon, they lost huge chunks of their genetic heritage leaving them dying species as Kosh told Sinclair in S1. That is they are not on a path to that state any longer. The implication is more or less explicit in the S1 episode with Jason Ironheart.
And Ironheart even knew how long it would take ("See You in a Million Years")
__________________
One Day I hope to be the Man my Cat thinks I am

Where are we going? And why are we in this Handbasket?
Sindatur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 27 2013, 06:49 PM   #868
kirk55555
Fleet Captain
 
kirk55555's Avatar
 
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

DalekJim wrote: View Post
I'd rather the show opened up more interesting questions than just "What happens next?" so I don't care about these "future spoilers".

I think kirk55555 would really hate the Dune series of books.
Dune is one of my favorite book series, I've read every one, even the ones Brian Herbert did based off of outlines his Dad wrote, and the prequels with Duke Leto and Paul set before the first trilogy The only ones I didn't care for were the ones set during the The Butlerian Jihad. I couldn't get through even the first of those books, but the rest of the series is great, although the original 3 (Dune, Dune Messiah and Children of Dune) will always be my favorites.

Now, to the B5 episode I just watched.

The very Long Night of Londo Mollari - I'm glad we're getting a Londo episode so early in the seaon. I didn't expect that Lennier was planning to leave, although it makes sense. I liked Lennier and Vir's talk, especially about the "Shirley Temple" Londo's dream was interesting. I didn't know how this dream set up would go, but it turned out very well. The G'Kar section was especially good. It was interesting to learn about Londo's first wife, who he married for love but had to divorce. This turned out to be a great episode. The dream stuff worked well, and we got to learn more about Londo.
kirk55555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28 2013, 08:54 PM   #869
Snatcher42
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Heh, no one comments when Kirk likes something. :P

Londo is my favorite thing about Season 5, and The Very Long Night is a very good episode!
Snatcher42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29 2013, 06:18 PM   #870
JoeD80
Captain
 
Location: Los Angeles
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

I love this episode. A dream episode where it actually affects the character in a significant way. G'Kar as Cartagia is fun and I also love Vir's scenes in this episode.

G'Kar is the highlight of season five for me; so much good stuff coming IMO.
JoeD80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
babylon 5, farscape

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:04 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.