Your favourite Batman...

[The Stig]

JarodRussell wrote:

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I especially like the comparison between the part where Bale-Wayne hangs on the ledge holding Ra's al Ghul, and he screams and it's extremely painful and exhausting, and where Robin catches Batgirl, and he's just casual, spouting a one-liner with no effort. That's the big difference, the difference between "realism" and camp what makes you either care or facepalm.

It's not really about dark or light, serious or comedic. It's more about what to do that an audience can relate with these characters and the film. If everything is camp, then there's nothing at stake. If the characters are unnatural, you don't care. And I think making a scene comical where, for example, a life is at stake is where people stop caring.

That scene always stood out for me because of how real it felt, even though it would be virtually impossible to execute the same kind of action in the real world. Bruce's arm would have been completely dislocated by the weight of Ras's body and there would be no way to pull Ras back up again.

Before 'The Dark Knight Rises,' I'd have said that my Batman was Bruce Timm's art and Kevin Conroy's voice. But Batman TAS never made me cry. I never felt stirrings of real emotion for Bruce Wayne or any of the characters of TAS but I'll be damned if Alfred didn't make me weep like a baby on more than one occasion during TDKR. It's like comparing Deep Space Nine with Battlestar Galactica. Both featured deadly consequences and a high-stakes conflict but I never believed for a second that anyone on that space station was a person, actual and whole. I cried for Gaius fucking Baltar on Battlestar. I wept for Tigh. Adama ripped my heart out and stomped on it when Starbuck died.

Nolan's Batman felt real to me. The people who inhabited his world made me care about the ridiculous and outlandish stakes. They made me forget about impossible microwave emitters and magic fusion reactor-bombs. They drew me in and got me to feel for them, root for them and weep for them. That's something I doubt will happen again with Batman.

So my favourite would be the entirety of Nolan's Batman series but if I were forced to chose, I'd chose 'The Dark Knight Rises.'

[Gojira]

Warped9 wrote:

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Seriously I've seen darker stuff in more mainstream films. Certainly we've seen more graphic and gratuitous violence than Nolan's trilogy.

Seeing those side-by-side Schumacher/Nolan clips is certainly an eye opener.

I know that there are more serious things out there than the Nolan movies. I just like to have my superhero movies have a little fun in them and the Nolan Batman movies, while very good, have been a bit joyless.

[Christopher]

Warped9 wrote:

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Of course one could try to wrap their head around how a story like The Dark Knight Returns could be done as goofy.

A lot of it already is goofy, in a way. There's a lot of social satire, pointed deconstruction, and things taken to intentionally ludicrous extremes, like the media and the ridiculous-looking gang members. It's absurdist in its own way.

[Lapis Exilis]

stj wrote:

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The symbolic interpretations of Batman whose "supreme force of will" awes people with superpowers are the ones I can't see. Other, less grandiose (as in megalomanical delusions) readings seem far more appropriate. My comments were aimed directly at Anders', not elsewhere.

I understand - that's why I wanted to point out I had somewhat misrepresented his opinion because I jumped to his comparison of Burton's Batman and the recent Batman of the comics.

But since it comes up, I don't think Moby Dick permits much reading other than a symbolic one.

Seriously? I thought Moby Dick was a fantastic adventure/ melodrama and Meville wrote it because his last few books had tanked, so he was trying to get back to the kind of adventure tale that had established his reputation. I know some people didn't like having to read it in Lit class but I don't think that goes much to whether or not you can read it beyond the symbolic.

[Lord Garth]

Batman Begins
Batman (1989)
The Dark Knight
Batman Returns
Batman (1943)
Batman (1966)
Batman & Robin (1949)
Batman Forever
Batman & Robin (1997)

I've seen The Dark Knight Rises. I'm not going to say where I rank it. Sorry. Here's a hint though: it's not my #1. The more I think about it, the less I like it. Bruce Wayne is my least favorite part of the film. More power to the people who enjoyed the film, I'm glad you did, but it's a fatal flaw for my own viewing experience. I'd rather see more Tim Jason Grayson... I mean, John Blake. He's the one who carried the movie.