NFL 2012 - Drive to Glory

[Ar-Pharazon]

Aragorn wrote:

---

Jim McMahon is suffering from early-stage dementia at the age of 53 and says if he had to do it over again, he'd choose baseball.

That sounds exactly like something McMahon would say. I hope he can get some help, medical and the financial help those players are after.

Though in the end, did the NFL really hide information about concussions or did they just not know the full deal?

[Gil T.Azell]

The picture and statement were sent to me by a co-worker who coached football.

This angle clearly shows Tate clearly has control as his feet touches and Jennings is in the air. 'Control' doesn't have anything to do with how many hands or who had hands on it first, its ALL who has control when the ball is dead, ie: when any player is two feet down. Simultaneous catch has just occurred. This is in no way an interception.
Touchdown Seahawks is absolutely the correct call, according to the rulebook, no matter what it looked like and its totally irrelevant that jennings was higher or had two hands on it first. Its also irrelevant that Tate had just shoved away another Packer, as pass interference on either side is never, has never and will never been called on a hail mary. The real refs would have called this whole sequence exactly the same.

The Packers did not get 'robbed'.

He's a Saints fan, but not a Green Bay or Seattle hater.

[Yoda]

^Sorry. Let's think about this. He can't even keep his nonsensical analysis internally consistent. So, he says you need to have both feet down in order to have control. This is of course wrong and he is conflating the concepts of control and possession. But think about it, if Tate gets control by having both feet down first, why is your friend still calling it simultaneous possession? By his misapplied criteria it would just be Tate, no simultaneous possession ruling would apply, and it's a clear cut touchdown. How seriously can you take someone who can't even follow the rules that he just completely made up?

Back to control vs possession for a sec. Think about every 'going to the ground' call ever... Because that illustrates the concept very clearly. "The receiver failed to maintain control all the way to the ground therefore the pass is incomplete." A complete catch results in possession. An incomplete pass does not. An incomplete pass can and often consists of a player having control but not possession. A pass can be incomplete even if the receiver maintains control the whole time if he lands out of bounds. Control and possession are not the same thing. Read the applicable rules with that in mind, you can't defend the nonsense you parroted here.

And pass interference doesn't apply on hail marys? C'mon man. That's just stupid. What else can you really say?

This Deadspin article is speaking about people like your friend.

Here is an in-depth explanation about why the call was completely incorrect courtesy of PFT. The situation that happened is specifically mentioned in the rules and referee casebook on how to apply said rules.

The real refs discussed the call and application of a rule as part of their 'stay sharp' conferences they were holding during their lockout. You can read about that here.

If you can refute any of that, please do.

[tighr]

If you showed me that picture, completely out of context and without knowledge of when or where it takes place, I couldn't even tell you that there is a ball in the picture. I simply cannot see a football, either in part or in whole. I have no way of knowing whether or not Tate possesses the football in that picture, because I can't see a fucking football.

[Timby]

tighr wrote:

---

I would be royally pissed if they actually took our pensions away (I don't know that they are legally able to do that).

They are not. By definition, pensions are deferred compensation -- you've already earned the money, it just isn't being paid out to you until a later date. If your employer decided to take away or otherwise cancel your pension, you'd have grounds to sue them into the next century.

[Alidar Jarok]

Timby wrote:

---

Almost, but not quite. The NFL now has the power to hire officials (the number of which can be determined by the league) on a full-time basis, meaning said officials would have to give up their second jobs. Also, any new officials will not be eligible for pensions, but rather will have 401(k) plans, and existing officials only have until 2016 to accrue service time towards their pensions. That last part means the NFLRA made a deal that helps its existing members, but gives a shitty hand to future members (not unlike the new MLB CBA).

Although they at least got a pay raise to compensate for this.

I don't personally have a problem with making them full-time employees. They get paid well enough to be one.

[Mr. Laser Beam]

CorporalClegg wrote:

---

Just saw the news Steve Sabol passed.

I watched his show every week when I was a kid. A truly great talent and worth every one of those Emmys.

He will be missed.

[Skywalker]

What exactly will full-time NFL referees do during the offseason? I feel dumb for asking that, but I'm drawing a blank.

[gblews]

Ar-Pharazon wrote:

---

That sounds exactly like something McMahon would say. I hope he can get some help, medical and the financial help those players are after.

Though in the end, did the NFL really hide information about concussions or did they just not know the full deal?

McMahon's life doesn't sound bad to me. Sounds like he is doing pretty well finacially. Who knows about his so called dementia.

But if he does have dementia and it is related to trauma suffered while playing in the NFL, it is a simple workers compensation matter. There are set financial benefits to be paid out for "permanent disability" and access to lifetime medical treatment for a work related medical condition.

Wenever I hear former players moaning about their current medical conditions it makes me chuckle because I know there is a lot more to the story than what they are telling the media and public. For instance, many of these guys very likely took a lump sum buyout of their workers comp benefits (including medical treatment) long ago and are now regretting it because they are still in need of treatment,

Some are represented by attorneys who are trying deperately to get their cases moved out of the workers comp arena and into the general liability arena where the payouts are substantially larger.

But don't buy the hype -- if these former players aren't getting acccess to treatment, believe me there is more to the story than what is being presented.

[Timby]

Skywalker wrote:

---

What exactly will full-time NFL referees do during the offseason? I feel dumb for asking that, but I'm drawing a blank.

The same thing they do currently, presumably. A lot of people don't realize just how much work it takes to get, and keep, an NFL officiating position.

If you're absolutely, ridiculously hot shit, and by that I mean the absolute best the world's ever seen, you could probably make it to the NFL about 15 years or so after working your first high school game ... and that's if you get lucky to have an obscenely accepting / patient employer right away, and move quickly up the ladder at work so you have enough seniority by the time shit gets serious, and you're using up all your spare time / vacation time networking and going to clinics and doing rules study and training videos, and God help you if you ever suffer an injury.

(As an example, Ed Hochuli started calling football in 1970 and got hired by the NFL in 1990; Mike Carey started in 1972 and got to the NFL in 1995.)

Once you step up from NCAA entry-level, you need to have a an assload of spare time: Two evenings a week (at least) for film and crew review (more for Division I-A and referees in general). You're gone all Saturday at the very least, sometimes you'll be leaving Friday evening and getting home Sunday afternoon. You're still looking to go to every clinic you can afford, and if you have a brain, you start going to clinics as an instructor, as well as a trainee (creating another thing that has to be planned and prepared for). You have to start doing fitness work to keep yourself fast and strong enough to be able to give 100 percent effort after three hours. That all eats up your off-season time. Then, a lot of people call arena football as an extra way to demonstrate their commitment / get experience at another positions / have as much game tape as possible to show supervisors. And after 20 - 25 years of that, you might get a call from the NFL to work as an umpire or a back judge.

It's not as balls-to-the-wall intense as, say, baseball, where you basically spend nine months on the road living out of a suitcase and three months preparing for the next nine, but it certainly means that football is going to be your main priority outside work and out of season.

[Skywalker]

Thanks for the in-depth explanation, Timby.

[Scout101]

^although what he answered was how hard it was to BECOME a NFL ref, not what they do in the off-season once they'e made it. Only touched on that a little, as far as keeping in shape, keeping up with rules and training, etc.

[gblews]

Timby wrote:

---

The same thing they do currently, presumably. A lot of people don't realize just how much work it takes to get, and keep, an NFL officiating position.

If you're absolutely, ridiculously hot shit, and by that I mean the absolute best the world's ever seen, you could probably make it to the NFL about 15 years or so after working your first high school game ... and that's if you get lucky to have an obscenely accepting / patient employer right away, and move quickly up the ladder at work so you have enough seniority by the time shit gets serious, and you're using up all your spare time / vacation time networking and going to clinics and doing rules study and training videos, and God help you if you ever suffer an injury.

(As an example, Ed Hochuli started calling football in 1970 and got hired by the NFL in 1990; Mike Carey started in 1972 and got to the NFL in 1995.)

Once you step up from NCAA entry-level, you need to have a an assload of spare time: Two evenings a week (at least) for film and crew review (more for Division I-A and referees in general). You're gone all Saturday at the very least, sometimes you'll be leaving Friday evening and getting home Sunday afternoon. You're still looking to go to every clinic you can afford, and if you have a brain, you start going to clinics as an instructor, as well as a trainee (creating another thing that has to be planned and prepared for). You have to start doing fitness work to keep yourself fast and strong enough to be able to give 100 percent effort after three hours. That all eats up your off-season time. Then, a lot of people call arena football as an extra way to demonstrate their commitment / get experience at another positions / have as much game tape as possible to show supervisors. And after 20 - 25 years of that, you might get a call from the NFL to work as an umpire or a back judge.

It's not as balls-to-the-wall intense as, say, baseball, where you basically spend nine months on the road living out of a suitcase and three months preparing for the next nine, but it certainly means that football is going to be your main priority outside work and out of season.

One of the assistant coaches for my jaycee team was an NFL ref. His name was Gordon Wells. When I knew him (as my coach) I think he was an alternate official. But in the years after I transferred, he apparently became full time because I would see him on TV reffing NFL games all the time.

I remember during my jaycee games our head coach was notorious for yelling and cursing out the refs. Wells, however, had a different approach. Mustering all of his NFL experience, he would wait until the official got close, and then calmly say, "Point of order, Mr. Referee", then start yelling and cursing.

[R. Star]

Who will crazy fans blame now when something goes wrong now that the real refs are back?

[Ar-Pharazon]

Timby wrote:

---

They are not. By definition, pensions are deferred compensation -- you've already earned the money, it just isn't being paid out to you until a later date. If your employer decided to take away or otherwise cancel your pension, you'd have grounds to sue them into the next century.

United airlines got around it with the bankruptcy.