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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old July 29 2012, 06:42 AM   #31
Hugh Mann
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Re: Episode-a-week: Encounter at Farpoint

Just re-watched it, though not the remastered blu-ray version.

It seems as though the saucer separation occurred while the vessel was at warp. I wonder if the saucer section was originally meant to have its own warp drive, or whether it was simply an error that they had the Enterprise fail to drop to impulse first.

Other than that, it seemed as though the episode featured some occasional over-acting. I couldn't help but smile when Worf stood up indignantly and shouted "I am Klingon!"

Good episode, though.
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Old July 29 2012, 11:36 AM   #32
Timo
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Re: Episode-a-week: Encounter at Farpoint

Whatever was intended for the saucer, the episodes featuring a separation boosted the impression that the saucer was capable of independent warp flight and independent acceleration to pretty high warp speeds.

In "Farpoint", the saucer reaches Deneb IV only about a day later than the battle section, suggesting it's not much slower. Further, Picard seems convinced the saucer will do fine propulsively, as he makes no attempt to go and recover it.

In "Arsenal of Freedom", LaForge sends the saucer in its merry way towards a faraway star system by separating it at impulse. This would make no sense if the saucer were capable of warp only after a warp launch, and even less sense if the saucer soon dropped out of warp even after a warp launch; it only makes sense if the saucer can accelerate to warp on its own.

In "Brothers", our heroes believe that separation will force the saucer (hijacked by Data) to drop down to impulse - but this, while in conflict with the two earlier episodes, is quite understandable as our heroes are in the process of deliberately sabotaging the saucer. They probably are doing some extra trick to prevent the saucer from continuing at warp.

"Best of Both Worlds" and ST:GEN featured separations where neither half of the ship was supposed to go anywhere much, so they don't offer much extra evidence.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old July 29 2012, 02:03 PM   #33
BillJ
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Re: Episode-a-week: Encounter at Farpoint

Timo wrote: View Post
In "Farpoint", the saucer reaches Deneb IV only about a day later than the battle section, suggesting it's not much slower. Further, Picard seems convinced the saucer will do fine propulsively, as he makes no attempt to go and recover it.

In "Arsenal of Freedom", LaForge sends the saucer in its merry way towards a faraway star system by separating it at impulse. This would make no sense if the saucer were capable of warp only after a warp launch, and even less sense if the saucer soon dropped out of warp even after a warp launch; it only makes sense if the saucer can accelerate to warp on its own.
I don't think either episode offers any evidence one way or the other...

In Farpoint, we don't know how close the ship is to Deneb IV before separation nor how close the saucer is once it falls out of warp. For all we know, they could've been on their proverbial doorstep.

In Arsenal of Freedom, the saucer could've been signaling the starbase that they needed to be towed in. They were only 28 seconds away from Minos at warp five, help from a starbase could've been hours or days away.
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Old July 29 2012, 03:13 PM   #34
Forbin
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Re: Episode-a-week: Encounter at Farpoint

The Castellan wrote: View Post
captrek wrote: View Post
Garrett Wang was a diva?
I use the term as a derogatory term for anyone that's pretty much a self centered jerk, male or female.

And from what I read of what he was like when Voyager was being made, I got one word to describe him:


Lucky.

They kept him around, despite him being useless.
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Lucky to be kept around? Yeah. Untalented? Sure. But self centered jerk? How so? Every time I've seen him speak he seems quite humble.
A friend of mine spent an evening at the bar with him (and Mark Goddard, of course) at a Creation Con once, and told me Garrett was real nice, regular guy.
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Old July 29 2012, 03:21 PM   #35
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Re: Episode-a-week: Encounter at Farpoint

Watched Farpoint last night with the Mrs. on the BD sampler.

I had to keep waking her up.

The nice new sharp effects shots are gorgeous. You can really see the azure/green paint job stand out on the E now!

The tacked-on-ness of the Q plot has been mentioned thoroughly here, so I'll just say, yeah, you could sure tell which parts Fontana wrote and which parts Gene jammed in there. I've never liked Q. At all.

Marina sure was a cutie in the little cosmic cheerleader outfit. My wife or I shouted "there she goes!" every time she "felt" something.

It was fun to relive it, but it did remind me why I haven't watched it in over a decade.
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Old July 29 2012, 04:32 PM   #36
Ar-Pharazon
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Re: Episode-a-week: Encounter at Farpoint

Perhaps those two engines on the saucer, which a lot of us might have thought were impulse engines, are a type of internal warp nacelle which can only create a warp field for the purpose of separation at warp, but can't, y'know, actually go to warp from sub-warp.

Or, they actually are impulse engines and I just rambled on for no good reason.

Or they were true warp engines, which would mean there was a secondary warp core somewhere that we never saw.
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Old July 29 2012, 04:42 PM   #37
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Re: Episode-a-week: Encounter at Farpoint

Ar-Pharazon wrote: View Post
Perhaps those two engines on the saucer, which a lot of us might have thought were impulse engines, are a type of internal warp nacelle which can only create a warp field for the purpose of separation at warp, but can't, y'know, actually go to warp from sub-warp.

Or, they actually are impulse engines and I just rambled on for no good reason.

Or they were true warp engines, which would mean there was a secondary warp core somewhere that we never saw.
An independent warp drive would seem unlikely. In The Best of Both Worlds, Riker shoots down Shelby's idea to separate the saucer because they may need the power from the saucers impulse engines.

Do you need a warp core to maintain a warp field once it's established or can the impulse drive produce enough power?
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Old July 29 2012, 08:32 PM   #38
Timo
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Re: Episode-a-week: Encounter at Farpoint

In Farpoint, we don't know how close the ship is to Deneb IV before separation nor how close the saucer is once it falls out of warp. For all we know, they could've been on their proverbial doorstep.
Incorrect. We see the combined ship fleet at extremely high warp for several minutes in a direction that is clearly 180 degrees away from the original heading toward the planet. The warp engines of the saucer have to undo at least that much, which is an impressive feat.

In Arsenal of Freedom, the saucer could've been signaling the starbase that they needed to be towed in.
This makes no sense - why would LaForge deliberately refuse to give the saucer a warp speed boost away from the dangerous system? He is placing the saucer at unnecessary risk unless the saucer in fact is capable of accelerating to the safety of warp speed all by itself.

They were only 28 seconds away from Minos at warp five
Minos was a planet monitored by "long range probes" and underwent an armageddon war without Starfleet noticing anything... It doesn't sound as if there would be any Fleet assets nearby to help the saucer.

Perhaps those two engines on the saucer, which a lot of us might have thought were impulse engines, are a type of internal warp nacelle
FWIW, the saucer exhibits a telltale warp glow - the classic blue of all Starfleet warp engines. It comes out of those square windows laid out in two squares on top of the aft half of the saucer...

Do you need a warp core to maintain a warp field once it's established or can the impulse drive produce enough power?
The Romulans certainly went to respectable warp speeds on what Scotty thought was "impulse power" in "Balance of Terror"!

Timo Saloniemi
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Old July 30 2012, 08:10 AM   #39
FreddyE
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Re: Episode-a-week: Encounter at Farpoint

I need to have a look in the tech manual, but I´m pretty sure that there is something about the impulse engines actually beeing able to generate a low level subspace field / warp field to reduce relativistic effects during full impulse, which can also be used to sustain warp speed for a short while if the saucer is separated during warp.
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Old July 30 2012, 07:55 PM   #40
Timo
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Re: Episode-a-week: Encounter at Farpoint

Quite so. There's also a mention of a two-minute limit on that. But it's completely incompatible with what we see in "Encounter at Farpoint", which is the saucer maintaining pretty high warp so that it can evenly compete with the battle section on the final leg of the trip to Deneb IV.

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Old July 30 2012, 08:12 PM   #41
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Re: Episode-a-week: Encounter at Farpoint

Timo wrote: View Post
Quite so. There's also a mention of a two-minute limit on that. But it's completely incompatible with what we see in "Encounter at Farpoint", which is the saucer maintaining pretty high warp so that it can evenly compete with the battle section on the final leg of the trip to Deneb IV.

Timo Saloniemi
For what it's worth, the wide angle shot from Farpoint shows both the saucer and stardrive at sublight immediately after separation. Then the next time we see the stardrive it's back at warp.
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Old July 30 2012, 08:43 PM   #42
Timo
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Re: Episode-a-week: Encounter at Farpoint

...And that's an interesting issue vis-á-vis the recent Blu-Ray redoing. Bernd Schneider's blow-by-blow analysis of that at the Ex Astris Scientia site doesn't touch upon the issue, but I suppose the scene might well have been reshot in CGI, like so many other complex VFX scenes were. Is the lack of warp streaks still evident there, or have the streaks been inserted?

Dialogue would seem to require the separation to take place at high warp. Or did Picard perhaps decide to listen to the warnings of his experts at the very last minute, and ordered the ship to brake really acutely just before separation?

Timo Saloniemi
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Old July 30 2012, 08:56 PM   #43
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Re: Episode-a-week: Encounter at Farpoint

Timo wrote: View Post
...And that's an interesting issue vis-á-vis the recent Blu-Ray redoing. Bernd Schneider's blow-by-blow analysis of that at the Ex Astris Scientia site doesn't touch upon the issue, but I suppose the scene might well have been reshot in CGI, like so many other complex VFX scenes were. Is the lack of warp streaks still evident there, or have the streaks been inserted?

Dialogue would seem to require the separation to take place at high warp. Or did Picard perhaps decide to listen to the warnings of his experts at the very last minute, and ordered the ship to brake really acutely just before separation?

Timo Saloniemi
No warp streaks in either version.

They are still at warp when separation begins, clearly. Perhaps separation pops the warp bubble?
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Old July 30 2012, 09:29 PM   #44
Timo
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Re: Episode-a-week: Encounter at Farpoint

To grasp at an excuse, we might say that the streaks are a matter of camera placement. Their absence here and in TOS or the TOS movies simply means the camera sits outside the warp bubble, as opposed to it sitting inside the bubble in the streaking TNG shots...

Timo Saloniemi
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Old July 31 2012, 06:31 PM   #45
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Re: Episode-a-week: Encounter at Farpoint

I've wound up writing a lengthy and probably overly windy blog entry on my thoughts about Encounter on blu ray:


http://thesolarpool.weebly.com/1/pos...n-blu-ray.html


Don't worry, I won't waffle on like that every week, sticking to this thread should be enough.
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