RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,667
Posts: 5,429,331
Members: 24,818
Currently online: 391
Newest member: Thomas Eugene


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 31 2012, 02:53 AM   #46
tomswift2002
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Blurbs for the 2013 TOS novels

Christopher wrote: View Post
^And DC's "The Final Mission" annual. And IDW's Mission's End miniseries. Part of the fun of not having a strictly unified tie-in continuity is that you can explore alternate possible versions of a single event. (I wonder if this version will be in continuity with Crucible.)
Or even ground explored in "Strangers From The Sky".

But, while I'll be picking them up, I probably won't get around to them for year's.

It's too bad that we aren't seeing any of those 2009 tie-in novels though.
tomswift2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31 2012, 04:19 PM   #47
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Blurbs for the 2013 TOS novels

I'm not complaining, but I'd have expected these faux movie tie-ins to be "early mission" stories, to better capture the vibe of the new movie which fans will be (presumably) clamouring for more of.

It's too bad that we aren't seeing any of those 2009 tie-in novels though.
If the novels can't tell actual nuTrek stories, I think they should start their own ongoing TOS Myriad Universe. A parallel to the parallel, so to speak.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31 2012, 06:15 PM   #48
DEWLine
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Send a message via AIM to DEWLine Send a message via Yahoo to DEWLine
Re: Blurbs for the 2013 TOS novels

I miss Naraht and the gang.
__________________
Yours,

Dwight Williams
Illustrator/Writer
DEWLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31 2012, 10:40 PM   #49
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Blurbs for the 2013 TOS novels

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
If the novels can't tell actual nuTrek stories, I think they should start their own ongoing TOS Myriad Universe. A parallel to the parallel, so to speak.
That completely defeats the purpose of setting aside the four novels. When people buy tie-ins, they do expect that they will be derived from the parent material.

Be patient. Pocket Books paid good money to four authors to write these novels. They will want to eventually recoup those losses. Once Bad Robot has managed to establish their movie continuity in the way they want it to be, unhampered by too much clashing peripheral material (there have already been complaints about a few minor details in "Countdown" that were at odds with the first movie), I'm sure that Pocket will be able to get an all clear to reinvestigate/modify the four shelved novel tie-ins and release them.

Drafts of "Engines of Destiny" sat in a box of donated author materials in a public library until it was reawakened as a viable novel almost four years later. Dustjackets for "Probe" sat in warehouse for over twelve months before that novel was overhauled/rewritten. A few other ST novels took over a year longer than originally announced: "Dyson Sphere" and "The Left Hand of Destiny" duology, not to mention plans for the continuation of the "Rihannsu" saga.

Eventually, there won't be a reason to keep four perfectly good novels on the shelf.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 1 2012, 01:26 AM   #50
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: Blurbs for the 2013 TOS novels

If they wait too long to release the books, couldn't that hurt the books somewhat? After all, they were written with only Trek XI to draw from. If they're released after XII or later they would clearly be a product of another time and things have developed much from when they were written. It could be similar from a novel written during TNG's first season being released during the sixth. Thing are very different now and it would show.

Granted that doesn't mean the book wouldn't still be a worthy read, and some might even see novelty to it written with only the first season to draw on. But that book could have been more popular in the first season than it would be now in the sixth.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation, but everything about how these novels were handled just seems sloppy. Especially now that we have a comic series telling new stories and a video game coming.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 1 2012, 02:23 AM   #51
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Blurbs for the 2013 TOS novels

^If they ever were released, they could possibly be rewritten to reflect later movies.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 1 2012, 08:56 AM   #52
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Blurbs for the 2013 TOS novels

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
If they wait too long to release the books, couldn't that hurt the books somewhat?
No. I would assume the four authors would get a chance to revise/update before publication, just as "Engines of Destiny" was polished four years after originally being canned. Some of the books might require more work than others, depending on how well the four authors predicted the events in the sequels to the 2009 movie.

Similarly, the second instalment of "Vulcan's Soul" was delayed by about a year so the authors could graft the Remans of "Nemesis" into the unfolding trilogy. They hadn't anticipated the information when submitting their original proposal.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation, but everything about how these novels were handled just seems sloppy.
Not really, Pocket proceeded in the belief that the four novels were going to be acceptable because the proposals had been accepted/approved (much like "Star Trek II Short Stories" and "Star Trek II Biographies" attempted to anticipate the events of ST III, but ended up getting lots of details incorrect). No more "sloppy" than the ST Office having second thoughts about "Probe" being a direct sequel to ST IV, even though the author's proposal had already been approved and dustjackets printed.

It was probably realised that keeping four full novels on track - without giving away the plot of the next film - was too tricky, especially when Bad Robot was busy working on the new movie. IDW's comics are keeping to approved/suggested "safe", tight storylines, co-plotted by the writers of the new movie. The three "Starfleet Academy" teen novels are prequels to the first film.

Especially now that we have a comic series telling new stories and a video game coming.
Exactly. These are more containable, without as much opportunity to clash with unfolding live-action movie events.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 1 2012, 10:33 AM   #53
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Blurbs for the 2013 TOS novels

Therin of Andor wrote:
That completely defeats the purpose of setting aside the four novels. When people buy tie-ins, they do expect that they will be derived from the parent material.
Well, these 2013 novels are no more tie-ins to the movie than what I suggested.

IMO a lot of the appeal of the new movie series is that anything can happen. Of course, that can't happen even in TOS or STXI tie-ins (not without a reset button finale, at least), but I think having another TOS spin-off timeline could capture some of that same spirit of uncertianty and fun. If we can't have "safe" JJTrek tie-ins, why not have an "unsafe" TOS-alternate along similar lines?
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 1 2012, 10:38 AM   #54
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Blurbs for the 2013 TOS novels

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
If we can't have "safe" JJTrek tie-ins, why not have an "unsafe" TOS-alternate along similar lines?
Because those four shelved novels already threatened to be "unsafe". It's probably too early to start splintering off the new timeline. Look how long it took for "Myriad Universes" and "The Mirror Universe" to become recognisable, marketable, highly-anticipated tie-in entities. Decades!

And there are already "safe" JJ tie-ins: the "Starfleet Academy" tie-ins and the IDW Ongoing comic.

Really, are you that short on ST stuff to read? My "to read" pile teeters all over the house. I'm at a point where, even if/when those four shelved novels are released, I won't get to them for years.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 1 2012, 12:18 PM   #55
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Blurbs for the 2013 TOS novels

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
KingDaniel wrote: View Post
If we can't have "safe" JJTrek tie-ins, why not have an "unsafe" TOS-alternate along similar lines?
Because those four shelved novels already threatened to be "unsafe".
Christopher has said the delay of those novels is nothing to do with continuity concerns.

Really, are you that short on ST stuff to read? My "to read" pile teeters all over the house. I'm at a point where, even if/when those four shelved novels are released, I won't get to them for years.
That's not the point. My want for a Treklit TOS splinter timeline isn't even to do with the cancellation of the new movie books, altho NOT having them released and thus not already having two TOS-eras on the Trek lit shedule (for full length novels, at least) presents a perfect oppertunity.

TNG, DS9 and VOY have all continued on beyond the series' endings, and taken the characters in new directions. They're open ended. TOS isn't. We know how it all ends, all there is is to fill in the gaps. And we're at the point where they're all packed solidly and we're getting the fourth or fifth "end of the 5YM story." Doing an ongoing TOS Myriad Universe can not only cash in on the current movies but give longtime lit fans something fresh and exciting with TOS characters.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 1 2012, 01:32 PM   #56
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Blurbs for the 2013 TOS novels

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
It's probably too early to start splintering off the new timeline. Look how long it took for "Myriad Universes" and "The Mirror Universe" to become recognisable, marketable, highly-anticipated tie-in entities. Decades!
I don't know what you mean. The general audience had no awareness of Myriad Universes until the first book came out. And the core fanbase who visited the boards were only aware of the project that became MyrU for about 3 years before it saw print.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 1 2012, 10:37 PM   #57
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Blurbs for the 2013 TOS novels

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Christopher has said the delay of those novels is nothing to do with continuity concerns.
Christopher has also said that the authors were not given actual reasons for the novels to be shelved, or whether it was permanent or temporary. I believe I recall the editor (Margaret?) saying that Pocket was asked that they be set aside "for now", and Pocket complied. Or did I dream all that?

Whether Bob Orci/Bad Robot was mostly concerned about continuity, or lack of direct control, or diluting the new franchise before the second film could better lay out the new direction, has not been explained. Perhaps the film's writers simply knew they'd be too busy to read four novel manuscripts while writing a new movie has not been laid out.

I'm not sure anyone can say "nothing to do with continuity concerns" as an absolute.

My want for a Treklit TOS splinter timeline isn't even to do with the cancellation of the new movie books, altho NOT having them released and thus not already having two TOS-eras on the Trek lit shedule (for full length novels, at least) presents a perfect oppertunity.
It's way too early to splinter off a new timeline into even more, new, "Parallel" timeline. Yet.

TNG, DS9 and VOY have all continued on beyond the series' endings, and taken the characters in new directions.
Yes, after a solid seven years each of new stories.

They're open ended. TOS isn't.
But the new timeline is!

We know how it all ends
We don't know how this new timeline develops at all.

We know how it all ends, all there is is to fill in the gaps. And we're at the point where they're all packed solidly and we're getting the fourth or fifth "end of the 5YM story." Doing an ongoing TOS Myriad Universe can not only cash in on the current movies but give longtime lit fans something fresh and exciting with TOS characters.
But you are asking for a "Myriad Universe" based on the new movie (ie. releasing the four shelved novels now) that won't necessarily agree with the next new movie. And Bad Robot doesn't want that kind of story tie-in being published. For now.

Christopher wrote: View Post
I don't know what you mean. The general audience had no awareness of Myriad Universes until the first book came out. And the core fanbase who visited the boards were only aware of the project that became MyrU for about 3 years before it saw print.
I'm sure I recall Marco Palmieri saying that a "Myriad Universes" series was not something that would have been so readily approved decades ago. Previously, novels that set out a radical new timeline had to be reset by the end of that novel ("Killing Time", "Ishmael", "Home is the Hunter", "First Frontier", etc). The "Myriad Universes" spin off the concept from TNG's "Parallels" that many alternate storylines actually co-exist.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/

Last edited by Therin of Andor; August 1 2012 at 10:50 PM. Reason: typos
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 1 2012, 11:36 PM   #58
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Blurbs for the 2013 TOS novels

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Christopher has said the delay of those novels is nothing to do with continuity concerns.
Christopher has also said that the authors were not given actual reasons for the novels to be shelved, or whether it was permanent or temporary. I believe I recall the editor (Margaret?) saying that Pocket was asked that they be set aside "for now", and Pocket complied. Or did I dream all that?
The two are not mutually exclusive. I don't know the exact reason why it was done, but I know enough to say it's probably not a matter of continuity, or at least, not solely that. Heck, if it were, they would've just asked us to rewrite them. By now they've done a bunch of YA novels and comic books that they don't consider a threat to the movie continuity. They've had plenty of time to get us to rewrite the novels by now if that were what it was about. So it doesn't even make sense as an explanation.

And I don't recall anyone explicitly saying that the books were set aside "for now." The initial statement said that Pocket would "hold off on telling new stories while JJ and his team continue to develop his vision" -- which some optimistically intepreted to mean "until they knew what the next movie would be about," but the actual statement is far more ambiguous. John Van Citters later elaborated, "That doesn’t mean we wont have stories taking place in this timeline," but he never said anything definite about these four books being released at a later date, beyond the ambiguous statement that they were "on hold." And Pocket has had stories in this timeline, the YA books.

So the statements that have been made are a lot more vague than you're implying. There's never been a promise made that these books would be published one day. It hasn't been completely, absolutely ruled out, no, but it's not guaranteed either.


Whether Bob Orci/Bad Robot was mostly concerned about continuity, or lack of direct control, or diluting the new franchise before the second film could better lay out the new direction, has not been explained.
Just as a point of clarification, Bob Orci isn't technically part of Bad Robot. BR is J. J. Abrams's production company, and Orci and Kurtzman formed their own separate production company, K/O Paper Products, in 2009. The two companies are production partners on the second Abramsverse movie.

So Orci may be the one who's adopted the task of overseeing continuity for all the tie-ins, but that doesn't mean he's the only or principal one who's making decisions about them on a larger scale (e. g. whether to publish them at all).


Perhaps the film's writers simply knew they'd be too busy to read four novel manuscripts while writing a new movie has not been laid out.
But they've been able to handle the comics and the YA novels. The movie script was finished long ago and principal photography is now over. That explanation doesn't hold water anymore.


I'm not sure anyone can say "nothing to do with continuity concerns" as an absolute.
We can't say as an absolute that President Lincoln wasn't killed by a Cyberdyne T-1000 impersonating John Wilkes Booth, but it would still be most unwise to believe he was. Asking for absolute certainty is an unrealistic standard. We assess the veracity of an idea based on its probability. Effectively nothing has zero probability, but lots of things have really, really low probability and should be recognized as bad ideas.


But you are asking for a "Myriad Universe" based on the new movie (ie. releasing the four shelved novels now) that won't necessarily agree with the next new movie.
No, that's not what KingDaniel was asking for at all. You need to go back and reread his post. As I understand it, he was asking for a separate new TOS-cast continuity, not based on either Prime or Abrams. Sort of like what The Children of Kings did.


I'm sure I recall Marco Palmieri saying that a "Myriad Universes" series was not something that would have been so readily approved decades ago.
But that's not what you said. You said it took MyrU decades to "become recognisable [and] marketable." Something can't take decades to become something if it hasn't existed for decades.

So really I think you're misusing that concept. Sure, it took decades to get the right climate for ideas like the MU and MyrU books to be conceived, but once that climate arrived, it only took a few years to get from the concept to the realization. And that climate allowing for coexisting timelines in Trek Lit already exists, so it doesn't make sense to say it would be necessary to wait decades before creating another one.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 1 2012, 11:47 PM   #59
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Blurbs for the 2013 TOS novels

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
It's way too early to splinter off a new timeline into even more, new, "Parallel" timeline. Yet.

Yes, after a solid seven years each of new stories.
Why not? The movies have their splinter timeline, why can't the novels have their own one, too? Especially since the novels aren't allowed near the movie one.
We know how it all ends, all there is is to fill in the gaps. And we're at the point where they're all packed solidly and we're getting the fourth or fifth "end of the 5YM story." Doing an ongoing TOS Myriad Universe can not only cash in on the current movies but give longtime lit fans something fresh and exciting with TOS characters.
But you are asking for a "Myriad Universe" based on the new movie (ie. releasing the four shelved novels now) that won't necessarily agree with the next new movie. And Bad Robot doesn't want that kind of story tie-in being published. For now.
That's not what I said. My only mention of those four STXI novels was just the usual "Oh, I wish they'd release them one day" and seperate from my suggestion of a new TOS Myriad Universe-style novel series, where anything can happen to Kirk and co.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 1 2012, 11:49 PM   #60
Sho
Fleet Captain
 
Sho's Avatar
 
Location: Berlin, Germany
Re: Blurbs for the 2013 TOS novels

Personally I derive great enjoyment from the cohesive, unified "extended universe" TrekLit paints today and have no interest in yet another new timeline.
Sho is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:29 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.