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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old August 5 2012, 08:58 AM   #421
Hober Mallow
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

davejames wrote: View Post
The Quinn and Remmick stuff was really well done as well. I haven't seen Conspiracy in awhile, but I assume at this point they were still their normal, human selves? Quinn's overly nasty attitude towards his old friend Picard early on definitely had me wondering...
I think that's the real Quinn's personality. Remember in "Conspiracy" the tip off for Riker and Picard that something wasn't quite right with Admiral Quinn was that he was being so cheerful.
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Old August 5 2012, 01:47 PM   #422
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

Next episode of HD caps from TNG-Remastered at TrekCore:

'The Last Outpost' http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/thumbnails.php?album=7

Enjoy!
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Old August 5 2012, 04:05 PM   #423
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

I have to confess: I am a little bit dissappointed. I didnt expect so much strong grain in the image, since it was shot in a well lit studio athmosphere. 1080p resolution seems even be a bit too high for the source material, it would pretty much look the same in 720p. Looking close it even looks more like an to 1080p upscaled 720p picture to me.

But I guess thats due to the old analog source material? New movies have a much sharper image on BluRay for me.
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Old August 5 2012, 04:56 PM   #424
gaghyogi49
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

FrontierTrek wrote: View Post
Next episode of HD caps from TNG-Remastered at TrekCore:

'The Last Outpost' http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/thumbnails.php?album=7

Enjoy!
...amd the accompanying Observations article is online, too: "The last outpost" at EAS
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Old August 5 2012, 05:07 PM   #425
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

^ I gotta say, I really appreciate these wonderful articles! Always a very interesting read. Endless thanks for doing these. Mit anderen Worten: Weiter so!
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Old August 5 2012, 05:32 PM   #426
davejames
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

gaghyogi49 wrote: View Post

...amd the accompanying Observations article is online, too: "The last outpost" at EAS
You know, it never occurred to me that the neck of the Ferengi ship was actually supposed to be elongating in that one scene. Or that it was supposed to be some kind of "surrender stance."

I always thought the camera was just zooming in to make the ship look more dramatic and imposing.
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Old August 5 2012, 05:47 PM   #427
The Transformed Man
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

Salinga wrote: View Post
I have to confess: I am a little bit dissappointed. I didnt expect so much strong grain in the image, since it was shot in a well lit studio athmosphere. 1080p resolution seems even be a bit too high for the source material, it would pretty much look the same in 720p. Looking close it even looks more like an to 1080p upscaled 720p picture to me.

But I guess thats due to the old analog source material? New movies have a much sharper image on BluRay for me.
Huh? Most film stock used in TV production in the late 80s is going to have a layer of grain... sorry but grain is not an imperfection it's part of the structure of the image. And what does analog have to do with anything? The images on the disc are struck directly from the camera negative so you are going to get the best image possible. Certainly doesn't look "upscaled" at all.

You need to watch some older movies. I would dare say "Casablanca" and "Sound of Music" on blu-ray are two of the best representations of film on disc and demonstrates just how much detail a properly restored and scanned film shot on celluloid has.

What you are describing as "detail" I suspect has more to do with the modern fascination of "crushing" blacks which means heightening the contrast until blacks become almost pure black. It artificially makes the image look sharper, but the reality is a lot of image detail is lost as subtle shadows and highlights are lost in blackness.

Here are a couple of examples:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/c...blackcrush.jpg

http://savestarwars.com/images/sefai...omparison1.jpg

As you can see in both examples the images with the "crushed" blacks look sharper, but a lot of the fine detail of the image is lost.


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Old August 5 2012, 06:06 PM   #428
davejames
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

There might be SOME shots that are overly-grainy, but the vast majority appear about as clean and sharp as anything made for TV today. At least from what I'm seeing.
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Old August 5 2012, 07:04 PM   #429
Captrek
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Salinga wrote: View Post
Hehe... I love the little details you now get with the BluRays, for example the gibberish text in the newspaper of the Dixon Hill episode:
I'm certain whoever wrote that went on to enjoy a long fruitful career writing speeches for American politicians.
Since it wasn't legible in the original broadcast, why did somebody take the time to write it? Why not just use lorem ipsum, or any preexisting public domain text?
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Old August 5 2012, 07:16 PM   #430
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

davejames wrote: View Post
gaghyogi49 wrote: View Post

...amd the accompanying Observations article is online, too: "The last outpost" at EAS
You know, it never occurred to me that the neck of the Ferengi ship was actually supposed to be elongating in that one scene. Or that it was supposed to be some kind of "surrender stance."

I always thought the camera was just zooming in to make the ship look more dramatic and imposing.
The various moving parts of the Ferengi ship are not really apparent as shot. It was an interesting idea, that one culture's "surrender" gesture might be read as something different by another, but it just doesn't come across.
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Old August 5 2012, 07:21 PM   #431
gaghyogi49
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

captrek wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Salinga wrote: View Post
Hehe... I love the little details you now get with the BluRays, for example the gibberish text in the newspaper of the Dixon Hill episode:
I'm certain whoever wrote that went on to enjoy a long fruitful career writing speeches for American politicians.
Since it wasn't legible in the original broadcast, why did somebody take the time to write it? Why not just use lorem ipsum, or any preexisting public domain text?
That particular filler text has been around for decades. There are companies that produce those newspapers especially for film studios, they simply use the same text over and over again. I'm currewntly watching The Twilight Zone on blu-ray, and the same filler text can be read whenever a newspaper is seen on that show. Here's an article about newspapers in Star Trek I wrote some time ago:

Newspapers in Star Trek at EAS
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Old August 5 2012, 07:57 PM   #432
Sho
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

Salinga wrote: View Post
Sagart wrote: View Post
Sho wrote: View Post
Hoping for info for us Germans ...
And those of us in the UK.
I got an info from Amazon here in Germany, that they are in touch with CBS about this and get an info out as soon as they know more. It seems, you maybe even get the replacements from Amazon automatically, if you bought them directly from them.
Thanks!
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Old August 5 2012, 10:50 PM   #433
RAMA
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

FrontierTrek wrote: View Post
Next episode of HD caps from TNG-Remastered at TrekCore:

'The Last Outpost' http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/thumbnails.php?album=7

Enjoy!

Great, love this stuff!
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Old August 5 2012, 11:02 PM   #434
Maxwell Everett
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

The Transformed Man wrote: View Post
Salinga wrote: View Post
I have to confess: I am a little bit dissappointed. I didnt expect so much strong grain in the image, since it was shot in a well lit studio athmosphere. 1080p resolution seems even be a bit too high for the source material, it would pretty much look the same in 720p. Looking close it even looks more like an to 1080p upscaled 720p picture to me.

But I guess thats due to the old analog source material? New movies have a much sharper image on BluRay for me.
Huh? Most film stock used in TV production in the late 80s is going to have a layer of grain... sorry but grain is not an imperfection it's part of the structure of the image. And what does analog have to do with anything? The images on the disc are struck directly from the camera negative so you are going to get the best image possible. Certainly doesn't look "upscaled" at all.

You need to watch some older movies. I would dare say "Casablanca" and "Sound of Music" on blu-ray are two of the best representations of film on disc and demonstrates just how much detail a properly restored and scanned film shot on celluloid has.
Well said! As you touched upon, grain on the original camera negative isn't simply something in the way of the image... it is the image. Each individual silver-halide crystal grain in the blue, green and red sensitive layers of the film emulsion are exposed to light in their respective wavelengths. The silver grains are then bleached away during processing, leaving behind a color dye "cloud" -- like a tiny drop of water on a paper towel.

If you're interested Salinga, you can read more about the process here.

Also, if you pay close attention to the Energized featurette, a gentleman, I believe it was Wade Felker, the film transfer technician on the project, holds up an original film canister from the episode "Justice" (if I remember correctly)... and on the camera report sticker it says the film stock used was Kodak 5294 (400T). This was a high-speed stock that was a bit contrastier and grainier than the stocks we have today.

Another film that used Kodak 5294 400T was 1986's The Name of the Rose starring Sean Connery. You can see some screencaptures here, (NOTE: there is one NSFW cap in the mix!). You'll see that its contrast and "graininess" is quite similar to TNG in its first season. Though, I'll just point out that this blu-ray did not have an original camera negative as its source.

Interesting side note... all films shot before 1981 used 100 ISO* speed film. The first high-speed stock was introduced by Fuji (Fuji A 250T 8518) which, as you can see by the number, was 250 ISO. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan was one of the first motion pictures to use this stock.

*ISO (International Standardization Organization) Yes, they also measure film speed!
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Old August 5 2012, 11:26 PM   #435
Maxwell Everett
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

gaghyogi49 wrote: View Post
FrontierTrek wrote: View Post
Next episode of HD caps from TNG-Remastered at TrekCore:

'The Last Outpost' http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/thumbnails.php?album=7

Enjoy!
...amd the accompanying Observations article is online, too: "The last outpost" at EAS
Great as always! Just wanted to point out that in the section that shows Riker on the cliff you write, "Some shots on the planet surface are rather blurry, perhaps owing to the video post-production." You could note here that this is one of many anamorphically lensed shots in the early seasons where -- in lieu of using a motion control camera -- the shot was filmed in 2.35:1 Panavision and later "Pan & Scanned" to achieve a camera move in post.
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