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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Fallen Gods.
Outstanding 1 1.15%
Above Average 13 14.94%
Average 40 45.98%
Below Average 23 26.44%
Poor 10 11.49%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 12 2012, 05:42 PM   #286
PKS8304
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Well I finished Brinkmanship and jumped right into this book.

I had posted around these parts after reading Brinkmanship how while Ive been enjoying the books and found the Typhon Pact storyline intruiging, having it be a huge part of the story of every Trek novel was becoming slightly tedious.

So I went into this book a little excited. After all, this is Titan. Riker and his crew are getting back to Trek roots and exploring space.

Then I quickly realized that even here, Typhon Pact was casting shadows.

The Andorian situation and Riker's stance to defy orders felt a little unecessary for me. Honestly, after reading Seize the Fire I went into this book excited to see where the story went with Tuvok.

On that aspect I was not disappointed. I was really enjoying Fallen Gods, starting with a new race and running with what they are dealing with, I thought tying their solution in with the Tuvok ecosculpting knowledge was really cool and a great way to tie in Titan and its crew.

Unfortunately (and ironically) I was sighing when it came to reading the scenes with the main characters of the book. I understand the Andorians leaving is a big deal. I understand its had a huge impact on the Federation. I understand this because its being covered in books about characters that arent supposed to be off on a deep space mission exploring. Then, the Andorians show up! Whats more, they brought the Tholians with them!

I literally finished the last 100 pages of this book to be done with it. Even the parts I was initially enjoying on the planet and the Tuvok/White Blue arc were basically just keeping me from abandoning the book all together.

I feel like the Andorians/Tholians hammering down the whole Twinning Transporter Tech (say that five times fast) cheapens the TNG episode with Tom Riker a little bit. It was supposed to be a fluke, not a plot device to be adapted into future Trek. Even going back further the episode where Spock tinkers with the same idea, fantastical ideas like this should be used in small doses.

So now we're left with an open ended plotline that will be presumably picked up in the next Titan novel and at best to me is plainly annoying. A distraction from what Titan is supposed to be.

I would prefer Michael Martin write another Titan novel to wrap all this up and have the next Titan novel resume going out and seeing whats out there.

I dont exactly feel like others that Martin cant write the characters, I think he does a fine job, I actually really like his Tuvok. I just find that I dont like some of the characters.

To be honest, I wish Vale wasnt in this series. I also am getting a little tired of Ranul. This is one of the rare cases where a Star Trek series presents a group of regular characters that have in some ways become boring when set against the diversity and interested crew being seen around them.

I liked this book for about half the time I was reading it and not as simple as the first half or the second.
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Old December 12 2012, 06:45 PM   #287
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

^James Swallow is writing the next TTN novel.
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Old December 17 2012, 02:20 AM   #288
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

In "Measure of a Man" Phillipa Louvois, a JAG captain and legal expert, says that Starfleet transfer orders cannot be stopped/countermanded/overridden/refused by the Starfleet officer receiving the orders.
The only way to stop them is to leave Starfleet. That is why Data was resigning his commission in the episode.
It seems clear to me that Star Trek cannon has already established that the "way out" of the transfer orders used in this book is not possible.

And the parallels are pretty strong.
"Measure of a Man", like the situation in "Fallen Gods", was about a Starfleet officer who's race was not a member of the Federation. [Because Data doesn't really have a standing race.]

Really, in this book, it would have made more sense for Riker to have helped all his Andorian crew members leave Starfleet, while maintaining their Federation citizenship. Then he might have been able to keep them aboard as "civilian observers". That would make more sense than what happen.
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Old December 19 2012, 12:27 AM   #289
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Just finished the book, and, to be honest, I really don't know how I feel about it. Revisiting and expanding on the circumstances whereby we ended up with two Rikers is an interesting story development, but would have been better suited to being dealt with as the subject of a multiple-book subseries (i.e. Destiny or Cold Equations) rather than a one-shot book that leaves the scenario unresolved and open-ended. The situation is exacerbated by the fact that there's absolutely nothing present in novels from other series that take place chronologically following this book that even hints at the monumental developments that this book sets into motion.

I did really enjoy the situation involving the Tai'thans, and particularly liked their intersex nature. The resolution of lingering issues from Seize the Fire was also neatly handled.
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Old December 19 2012, 12:57 AM   #290
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

datalogan wrote: View Post
And the parallels are pretty strong.
"Measure of a Man", like the situation in "Fallen Gods", was about a Starfleet officer who's race was not a member of the Federation. [Because Data doesn't really have a standing race.]
Well, their particular species isn't technically the issue -- their world of citizenship is. Since Data was "born" on a world that was considered a colony of United Earth, I would imagine that -- if the Federation were to get off its ass and clarify Data's legal status in a clear, unambiguous, and egalitarian manner -- Data would qualify as a United Earth citizen and a Federation citizen (and thus receive his representation on the Federation Council through the Federation Councillor from United Earth, and be entitled to vote for an MP in the Parliament of United Earth, etc).

Interesting question: I wonder how Starfleet is reacting to biological Andorian officers who may not have been Andorian citizens. There may be, for instance, officers born from an Andorian diaspora on Alpha Centauri, whose ancestors have been on Alpha Centauri for over a hundred years and who have no real connection to Andor. Would those Andorians also be subject to Starfleet paranoia?

Really, in this book, it would have made more sense for Riker to have helped all his Andorian crew members leave Starfleet, while maintaining their Federation citizenship. Then he might have been able to keep them aboard as "civilian observers". That would make more sense than what happen.
I agree completely.
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Old December 20 2012, 07:59 PM   #291
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I think it’s clearly a race issue. It’s the Andorian race that is dying out. It’s the Andorian race that can’t interbreed with any other races in the galaxy. The Andorian government is mad at the Federation for withholding information from the Andorians as a race of people, not as a planetary body.

And it’s the Andorian race as a whole that is being questioned by the Federation and Starfleet—regardless of planetary affiliation (or lack thereof).

You do bring up other issues, Sci, like planet of origin or Andor citizenship versus Federation citizenship. But I think those kind of issues are exactly the kind of thing that organizations like Starfleet forget when knee-jerk reactions like this take place. It’s fairly realistic—although not praiseworthy.
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Old May 4 2013, 09:09 PM   #292
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I finished this last night. Although it wasn't a masterpiece, I enjoyed it quite a bit, as I had Seize the Fire previously. The Andorian plot was my favorite part of the book, and I'm interested to see what's next for the ressurrected Andorian Imperial Guard, as well as the duplicate Titan officers.
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Old May 4 2013, 09:26 PM   #293
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

The next Andorian story seems to be A Ceremony of Losses, the third of Star Trek: The Fall.
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Old May 4 2013, 09:36 PM   #294
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

The Fall mini-series is definitely something I'm looking forward to
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Old September 1 2013, 09:30 AM   #295
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Draft cover for the German edition of "Fallen Gods":
http://www.thetrekcollective.com/201...ver-hints.html

Wow! Featuring a bevy of Andorians (the female would be Pava, who used to be in the "Starfleet Academy" comic and transferred to the USS Titan novels) and the warship is named after... Shantherin th'Clane.

But, then, I am biased.
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Old September 1 2013, 10:14 AM   #296
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Draft cover for the German edition of "Fallen Gods":
http://www.thetrekcollective.com/201...ver-hints.html

Wow! Featuring a bevy of Andorians (the female would be Pava, who used to be in the "Starfleet Academy" comic and transferred to the USS Titan novels) and the warship is named after... Shantherin th'Clane.

But, then, I am biased.
I linked to it in the Picture the Novelverse thread a couple of days ago figuring you would get a kick out of it, but I guess you don't frequent that thread.
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Old September 1 2013, 10:56 AM   #297
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I'm seriously considering re-reading Fallen Gods, since I can't remember half of it really. And if the new Titan novel is to follow-up on this, I should sort of remember what happened I guess. Not really looking forward to it though.
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Old September 1 2013, 11:14 AM   #298
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

As mentioned earlier in the thread 'SPOILERS' !...

There are transporter duplicates.

That really is all you need to know. That is all I can remember anyway, and I have NO intention of re-reading it.
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Old September 1 2013, 03:11 PM   #299
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Defcon wrote: View Post
I linked to it in the Picture the Novelverse thread a couple of days ago figuring you would get a kick out of it, but I guess you don't frequent that thread.
Not yet.

Of course, I haven't got to this one in English yet, either, and managed to spoilerize myself by posting the pic here. Nickyboy sent me the link today.

Coincidentally, I'd only just ordered my copy of "Star Trek: Typhon Pact 4: Zwietracht", von Dayton Ward, from Amazon.de
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Old September 1 2013, 11:03 PM   #300
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

datalogan wrote: View Post
I think it’s clearly a race issue. It’s the Andorian race that is dying out. It’s the Andorian race that can’t interbreed with any other races in the galaxy. The Andorian government is mad at the Federation for withholding information from the Andorians as a race of people, not as a planetary body.

And it’s the Andorian race as a whole that is being questioned by the Federation and Starfleet—regardless of planetary affiliation (or lack thereof).
It's possible that there are no large Andorian populations outside of the Andorian Empire. If Andorians can find their reproductive partners only from among their own species in an ever-shrinking pool of potential partners, it wouldn't be very easy at all to set up an independent Andorian society cut off from that pool.
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