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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Fallen Gods.
Outstanding 1 1.12%
Above Average 14 15.73%
Average 40 44.94%
Below Average 23 25.84%
Poor 11 12.36%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

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Old August 12 2012, 10:12 AM   #211
Defcon
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

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Old August 12 2012, 09:16 PM   #212
Poncho Anderson
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

starri wrote: View Post
Well, it was on my Kindle this morning, and I had it finished before noon.

It was definitely an improvement on Seize the Fire, but that's really the only positive thing I can say about it. It wasn't a bad book, per se, but compared to the stuff most of the other authors have been putting out, it can't really hold up.

Between this and StF, I wish an editor would encourage Martin not to indulge in starting the story with the aliens. Frankly, if I hadn't forced myself to get through that first chapter to get to the Titan's crew, I could have set it down and not regretted it later. I might be the only one that feels that way, but I think if someone is going to start the story with a more-or-less unfamiliar alien culture instead of the familiar characters, the writing needs to be extraordinarily strong, and this, IMHO, was not.
I'm not sure I agree with this. The author shouldn't be pigeonholed into a form of writing their novel. Once the outline is finished, he/she should be able to write as they please and then the editor works with them to flesh out necessary parts that need it.

Question though for anyone who can answer: How is it possible, with everything the Federation and Starfleet has been through, for Captain Riker to have so many high ranking officers on his ship? I would think that with Commanders Vale, Tuvok, Troi, and Ra-Havreii, the powers that be would send one or two of them to another ship/station to serve. With the Borg devastation, aren't higher ranking officers needed desperately? Having so many in one place just seems like a waste of resources to me, though I may be way off. Looking through the character appendix at the back of the book, Riker even has quite a few lieutenant commanders serving with him. What am I missing?
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Old August 12 2012, 09:40 PM   #213
Poncho Anderson
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

CommodoreNero wrote: View Post
As someone who is trying to finish his first novel, I will absolutely give credit where credit is due and congratulate the author on finishing his work. That being said, however, I will say this one was not my particular taste. It fell a little flat for me. The Andorians felt like cartoons, the plot was very by the numbers and I didn't care about the aliens. I wanted to know more about their progenitors, because they seemed actually interesting. All in all, not my favorite.
As I said before, I didn't think this was too bad when you compare it to Seize the Fire. I think for those of us who have read quite a few Trek novels, we've become accustomed to seeing great works from the likes of David Mack, Christopher Bennett, Kirsten Beyer, David R. George III and a few others who've contributed to the post-Destiny novels. I'm hard pressed to find something post the Borg devastation that I've outright disliked. Only two novels come to mind that I found subpar at the time (RBoE and Seize the Fire) and after re-reading them, I didn't think they were as bad a I previously thought. They simply didn't measure up to the others novels and if you consider RBoE a part of a quasi-DRGIII trilogy, even that novel turns into something all together different.

Anyway, I gave the novel an above average rating, as I thought it was leaps and bounds better than his previous Titan work and I thoroughly enjoyed what he did with the crew (not so much with the Ta'ithians). Perhaps, if you ever get the chance to come back to the novel later down the road, you'll find a different experience. It's what I did and can appreciate it somewhat more.
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Old August 12 2012, 10:07 PM   #214
Drizzt
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Thanks Defcon. I kinda had a feeling that might be the case, but was not sure, so I just had to ask. I appreciate the swift response.

I also agree with the guy that posted above, in that I thought that the Keepers & Trashers were uninteresting for the most part. Their progenitors, and how they linked up with Brahma-Shiva, and all that business...now that has some interesting stuff within it. But, for the most part, I found myself skimming the chapters that had to do with the Keepers & Trashers' conflict, and giving more attention to the chapters devoted to the Andorian/Titan/Therin situation.

Just my two cents.
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Old August 13 2012, 03:47 AM   #215
JWolf
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Drizzt wrote: View Post
Keep on writing, Mr. Martin!
This is going to stir up an angry mob.
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Old August 14 2012, 05:55 PM   #216
ToddCam
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Poncho Anderson wrote: View Post

Question though for anyone who can answer: How is it possible, with everything the Federation and Starfleet has been through, for Captain Riker to have so many high ranking officers on his ship? I would think that with Commanders Vale, Tuvok, Troi, and Ra-Havreii, the powers that be would send one or two of them to another ship/station to serve. With the Borg devastation, aren't higher ranking officers needed desperately? Having so many in one place just seems like a waste of resources to me, though I may be way off. Looking through the character appendix at the back of the book, Riker even has quite a few lieutenant commanders serving with him. What am I missing?
Presumably the same reason Riker was able to stay first officer of Enterprise-E throughout the Dominion War, and Data and Geordi were never transferred either. I have never seen a satisfactory in-story explanation, just occasional references to "clout."
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Old August 14 2012, 08:32 PM   #217
Ronald Held
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Just finished and found it unsatisfying.
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Old August 15 2012, 05:35 PM   #218
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Ronald Held wrote: View Post
Just finished and found it unsatisfying.
I am in this boat. There is something really missing from this book. I found the world building lacking, there is no complete description of the aliens so I cannot truly picture what they look like. All the characters are as flat as the page they are written on. The Andorian mess was good and yet felt so shoehorned in, especially with as far away as Titan is. How do the Andorians catch up? And lastly, here we get another bashing of those who have faith and glorifying those who have science. The best Trek (DS9) showed us how faith can live alongside science and here those with faith are bigoted and fear-mongers, the complete cliche. Titan has been on of my favorite series, but his installment is missing everything that has made it great, characterization that has depth, wonderful world-building and something epic worth fighting for.
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Old August 15 2012, 09:14 PM   #219
trash80
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Finished last night, pretty good though not flawless by any means. The pulsar planet reminded me of a non-Trek SF i read many years ago though can't remember what it was called now (though in this other book the aliens actually lived on the pulsar i think).
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Old August 16 2012, 05:24 AM   #220
Travis Chesser
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Okay, finally finished and have some thoughts. SPOILERS ABOUND

Pros: Much better than Seize the Fire. StF I had trouble even reading. With FG, I kept reading fine, and didn't get bogged down. I thought FG had an interesting story at least, wanted to see what would happen next.

Cons: Sigh. There was so much potential never followed up. If you are going to create a new alien race, make us care about them. That was almost nonexistent, especially at the end. You start the book with these two groups, and really almost give us nothing in the final moments. Anything about what happens afterwards? Trashers realize their mistakes, or not? Fighting continues? Flesh this stuff out, make me care! Follow up on your beginnings rather than, in the end, making it seem like nonessential fluff.

The whole Andorian situation and trickery was not... well written. I understand he was trying to layer the plot with some mystery. "Wait, she's dead? Who's back on Titan? What's going on?!" Yet, the mystery was not written well. It was confusing, to the extent that I actually thought I was missing something and kept flipping back to see what chapter I must have skipped. It wasn't until later I realized you were meant to be kept in the dark, but it just came off awkward and clumsy.

Why bring back Second Gen only to immediately return to the previous book's status quo? That was weird. I understand the end of the book leaves it open for Martin to revisit Torvig's plan for Second Gen as well as the Andorians on the Therin, but still, it felt weird. And wasn't a plan of the whole transporter duplication plan. As others have pointed out, I know the Andorians are pissed at the Federation and whatnot, but really, sinking to new lows with the Tholians this quickly? Tholians, yes, this has been established, but this seems a like a low, sickening plotline and I don't really see it. Maybe if Martin had given us more insight into the Therin's captain, and his motivations, and whatnot but he came across as a two dimensional character.
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Old August 16 2012, 12:48 PM   #221
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I finished the book a few days ago and it still feels unsettling. It feels like this book coud've used another six or twelve months of polish.

With the Andorian warship I kept expecting someone too say that it was one that the Andorians had pulled out of mothballs from over 200 years earlier and just upgraded, but no one said anything (just how long were the Andorians planning on seceding from the Federation). And I don't get how the Andorians could've built new warships without Starfleet knowing about it. The Historians note says that the story starts two weeks after the secession, but the Andorians have fully constructed warships, even though Starfleet would've had a bases and starships in the Andorian system upto the withdrawal; I doubt that the Andorians would've needed a space fleet when they had Starfleet. And the book takes place over the course of no more than to weeks.

I would give the book a rating of 2.5 out of 10.
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Old August 16 2012, 04:58 PM   #222
Paris
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
I finished the book a few days ago and it still feels unsettling. It feels like this book coud've used another six or twelve months of polish.

With the Andorian warship I kept expecting someone too say that it was one that the Andorians had pulled out of mothballs from over 200 years earlier and just upgraded, but no one said anything (just how long were the Andorians planning on seceding from the Federation). And I don't get how the Andorians could've built new warships without Starfleet knowing about it. The Historians note says that the story starts two weeks after the secession, but the Andorians have fully constructed warships, even though Starfleet would've had a bases and starships in the Andorian system upto the withdrawal; I doubt that the Andorians would've needed a space fleet when they had Starfleet. And the book takes place over the course of no more than to weeks.

I would give the book a rating of 2.5 out of 10.
This confused me as well. Are we missing something, or did the editor not notice...
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Old August 16 2012, 06:51 PM   #223
Enterpriserules
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I'd rate it 2 out of 10 or below average
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Old August 16 2012, 07:25 PM   #224
Ronald Held
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

For some finality, I would propose Blue- White not be able to be recovered, even if it take the entore run to determine it.
I agree that another race is created for which I do not have any long term reason to care about.
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Old August 16 2012, 11:16 PM   #225
tomswift2002
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Paris wrote: View Post
tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
I finished the book a few days ago and it still feels unsettling. It feels like this book coud've used another six or twelve months of polish.

With the Andorian warship I kept expecting someone too say that it was one that the Andorians had pulled out of mothballs from over 200 years earlier and just upgraded, but no one said anything (just how long were the Andorians planning on seceding from the Federation). And I don't get how the Andorians could've built new warships without Starfleet knowing about it. The Historians note says that the story starts two weeks after the secession, but the Andorians have fully constructed warships, even though Starfleet would've had a bases and starships in the Andorian system upto the withdrawal; I doubt that the Andorians would've needed a space fleet when they had Starfleet. And the book takes place over the course of no more than to weeks.

I would give the book a rating of 2.5 out of 10.
This confused me as well. Are we missing something, or did the editor not notice...
I've found that with Michale A. Martin's Trek books, his last couple of Roddenberry-verse novels (except "Beneath The Raptor's Wing") have not been anywhere near as good as his novels from when he was writing with Andy Mangels (except Last Full Measure is still even worse than Fallen Gods). But, I have to agree with someone else on this forum about the religion/science not working together bashing that was in the novel; even the title tends to lean in that direction.
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