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Old June 13 2014, 01:58 PM   #511
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
...
You do realize that we are talking about movies.

You know, this could be a whole thread to itself.

I almost attempted starting one regarding the oft heard complaint that TNG Insurrection was just a longish episode of TNG released in the movies.

What is a movie and what is a tv show? Are they mutually exclusive?

It used to be a tv show is continuing and a movie is self contained, but no movie is "self contained" in the sequel era. Marvel has just accepted this from before the first movie even was made. It's somewhat like a tv show, in that it's interconnected, it's a series of movies. The story continues.
And look at most of the original sequels, they were tacked on for the money like Jaws 2 and Ghostbusters 2. The story was intended to be completed with the movie. Marvel rejects that lack of planning so that each movie seemlessly fits onto the end of the next and continues. (That's never been done before, with the possible slight exception of how Lord of the Rings was made.) It's great for keeping continuity, something a lot of flim makers or tv producers don't always care about, but it can have the impact of making each individual movie not "special" in of itself.

I think it depends on what is actually made, and of course opinions vary about "what's good" and "what's not"

For example, for me, I much prefer continuity. I'm actually a continuity nut. I don't know why, but if somebody does something in a show or movie and it matters later on and really means something, I love it. One of the best examples of recent memory and one of my favorite was on the Shield finale: Fury gave Coulson the Destroyer gun, the same gun he was holding when he was killed by Loki in Avengers, two years before, and he says, "I know what this does." I cheered when that happened. That was so good, it tied together so well, it was a direct answer to his line, "I don't even know what it does." I loved it. And Clark's delivery of the line was perfect. So when someone says Captain America TWS is actually Avengers 1.5, I say Bring It! I love Avengers and Captain America in particular, I can think of Avengers as Captain America 1.5, too! I don't have to wait 3 years to see my favorite characters, they might be back as quick as in 6 months. I like it.

Now, let's step back a bit, because there's quantity and there's quality. I think it's safe to say that CATFA, Avengers, and CATWS are quality movies. None of that getting a movie every year or 6 months would count a damn if they were like Captain America 1990, for example. That sucked so bad, I wonder that the black hole they were afraid the Hadron Supercollider was going to make wasn't created by that movie. I even like the terrible Reb Brown Captain America tv movies better than that one.

So, to sum it up. Lots is good if they's good on their own, lots of shit is still lots of shit, and I've liked all of the MCU movies so far.

Back to Ant Man, maybe Hydra wasn't inside Shield when Edgar started his AntMan movie 8 years ago and he didn't want to adjust plot points based on that. Did you think Shield was going to collapse like that 8 years ago? Sheild was so pervasive and omnipotent in the first phase of the MCU it looked like it would go on forever. I think they may have realised just about any movie where it's going bad for the hero, Shield could have been and easy machina ex dues (sp?) and bail it out for everyone, now that's gone. I think that's a much better direction to take, no super "big brother" to bail your plot out when it bogged down, but maybe that would have changed things around too much. 8 years is a long time for a pre production. I don't know, just putting that out there.
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Old June 13 2014, 04:30 PM   #512
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

About the last couple of posts:

1. I wasn't impressed by the effects in Life of Pi. I could go off on why, but I won't. I think part of it is what they were used for, and just how awful that movie was in every way. The only thing I hold in high regard about that film is the kid that played teenage Pi. He was fantastic, and originally was just at the audition to watch his brother.

2. Continuity is cool, I guess... but despite appearances, Marvel cares very little for it. Most of their post credit bits from the Phase One films might speak to ideas that will be exolored in other films, but it hardly holds u to scrutiny to say that they actually happened that way. For example, in TIH, Stark seems to be the recruiter, not Fury. Thor's post credits stinger is redundant after watching Avengers.

In it's own way, Trek, with hundreds of episodes across a few different series and across many fictional years, had it much more challenging to keep up with continuity. Us fans can point out many spots where continuity fails, and some of them are obvious, but the scope of Trek is very broad. With the MCU, they spent millions to bring all of this continuity together but there's no story, no underlying themes, not drama under neath the surface that warrants it.. they are all just colorful and witty action films. The only one that tried to give this universe any real substance, and to have us look to the past films with different eyes is TWS. But it didn't have the courage of it's convictions, as the last act of that film was a cop-out.
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Old June 13 2014, 06:54 PM   #513
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Yeah, I agree with that. The effect in itself shouldn't be what matters.

That being said, I don't think we're beyond being wowed by special effects. Go watch Life of Pi. Those effects are breathtaking.
I agree.

For me, The Fountain, in a theater... takes my breath away.

Yeah, I think it's possible for everyone, young and old, to still be surprised by a visual moment in a movie.
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Old June 15 2014, 01:14 PM   #514
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

Straight Up, I'm a sucker for a good story, with great characters, being told by a deft storyteller.

The VFX and overall visual style can shape the narrative of film more so than almost any other medium, but in the end when all is said and done... If it's not on the page, it's not on the stage.

That said, a mediocre story can be salvaged by great directing (to a point) but I'd much rather find myself in Camp 1 than Camp 2.
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Old June 16 2014, 12:47 AM   #515
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

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I'm not sure if this has been posted here or not, but this video brilliantly emphasizes why Edgar Wright is a brilliant visual director that understands visual comedy. Interestingly enough, the video compares Wright's stylish, innovative comedy to the likes of Adam McKay.

The video really drives home how depressing and disappointing it is that Wright left the project. It also conveniently drives home how mundane and straightforward a lot of McKay's comedy is - including other contemporary comedy directors. Wright finds fun, visual and unique techniques to present comedy that is both funny, inventive and serves the plot. It's the kind of comedy we need more of in movies - which is why I was so excited for Edgar Wright's Ant-Man.
I think that video essay makes a compelling case about the state of contemporary film comedy, but I also think it gives McKay a bit of an unfair shake in its choice of examples. Granted, it is trying to make a point about comedy as a whole, not McKay in particular, but it's worth pointing out that McKay also directed this, which is hardly an example of what the author is complaining about:



McKay is also a solid action director -- better, in fact, than many people directing straight action movies.

On the subject at hand, I'm mostly relieved that Wright isn't working on a Marvel movie. A voice as talented and distinct as his was never going to be heard clearly by the time the finished product rolled around.

Although, on the other hand, considering that The World's End only cost $20 million to make, it's staggering to think what Wright could have done with ten times that amount.
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Old June 16 2014, 01:27 AM   #516
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

Harvey wrote: View Post
I think that video essay makes a compelling case about the state of contemporary film comedy, but I also think it gives McKay a bit of an unfair shake in its choice of examples. Granted, it is trying to make a point about comedy as a whole, not McKay in particular, but it's worth pointing out that McKay also directed this, which is hardly an example of what the author is complaining about: [video]

McKay is also a solid action director -- better, in fact, than many people directing straight action movies.
McKay is not the one who's directing Ant-Man, though. He's just doing a script rewrite. The actual director is Peyton Reed, whose most recent movie "Yes Man" (which I watched last week) is pretty much the epitome of everything that the Edgar Wright video criticizes about contemporary comedy.
To be fair, though, I do seem to remember his earlier movies "Down with Love" and "Bring It On" having some visual flair.
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Old June 16 2014, 02:14 AM   #517
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

To be fair, I would have cringed had I heard that the people behind You, Me, and Dupree were going to direct a Marvel movie.
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Old June 16 2014, 02:47 AM   #518
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

AvBaur wrote: View Post
Harvey wrote: View Post
I think that video essay makes a compelling case about the state of contemporary film comedy, but I also think it gives McKay a bit of an unfair shake in its choice of examples. Granted, it is trying to make a point about comedy as a whole, not McKay in particular, but it's worth pointing out that McKay also directed this, which is hardly an example of what the author is complaining about: [video]

McKay is also a solid action director -- better, in fact, than many people directing straight action movies.
McKay is not the one who's directing Ant-Man, though. He's just doing a script rewrite. The actual director is Peyton Reed, whose most recent movie "Yes Man" (which I watched last week) is pretty much the epitome of everything that the Edgar Wright video criticizes about contemporary comedy.
To be fair, though, I do seem to remember his earlier movies "Down with Love" and "Bring It On" having some visual flair.
All true. Just wanted to defend McKay for a second.
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Old July 7 2014, 10:23 PM   #519
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

Helping to guide McKay through his portions of the Ant-Man re-write a report comes that production writers Andrew Barrer and Gabriel Ferrari are coming on board the production.

A new report appears to shed light, with regard to what additional steps Marvel is taking to keep the Ant-Man ship on course, now that Peyton Reed (Bring It On, Yes Man) has climbed onboard to serve as captain.Writer/director Adam McKay (Anchorman 1 & 2), who was originally in talks to direct Ant-Man after Wright stepped away, is confirmed to have revised the earlier script draft credited to Wright and Joe Cornish (Attack the Block). However, according to a new report by Latino Review, writing duo Andrew Barrer and Gabriel Ferrari will serve as production writers during the Ant-Man shoot in Atlanta – meaning, they shall perform any necessary script revisions that may become needed during filming.

Now, if you’re familiar with Latino Review, then you know that while a number of the site’s exclusives have proven to be accurate, many others have proven to be off-base. That said, this particular Ant-Man report seems reasonable enough; Reed is jumping (more like hurling himself, really) head-first into the Marvel Cinematic Universe, so Marvel Studios heads will likely be offering whatever help they can, in order to improve Reed’s chances of sticking his landing. That could include hiring additional writers to remain on standby, in case any story issues suddenly rear their head once the cameras are rolling.
I'm kinda just ready for filming to start but will care more once GotG has come out cause that means Ant-Man will be last known film starting production. Avengers 2 is over 1/2 way done at this point and will be nearly done when Ant-Man begins production.
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Old July 9 2014, 02:30 AM   #520
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

With all the "extra help" being considered, and the delays... I'm starting to get to the point where my expectations in general for Ant-Man have just completely bottomed out.

Optimism for Guardians of the Galaxy is currently quite high, and my anticipation for Doctor Strange is through the roof... but I'm getting the impression that Ant-Man is going to be more like Iron Man 2 than say Captain America: The Winter Soldier.
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Old July 9 2014, 05:37 AM   #521
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

I think I might have to agree with you there. After Edgar Wright spent so much time on this, I do have to wonder what it's going to end up like now that we have a whole new team of people coming in at what seems to be pretty much the last minute.
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Old July 9 2014, 09:11 AM   #522
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This movie sounds more and more like it will be a complete mess. I'd be shocked if it turns out half way decent.
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Old July 9 2014, 05:23 PM   #523
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

Michael Douglas confirms info at SDCC regarding Ant-Man.
The interviewer notes that Douglas seemed thrilled to be playing Hank Pym in the Peyton Reed-directed Ant-Man, but he's still disappointed that Edgar Wright left the 2015 film. “Yeah, he’s a wonderful talent,” he said. “It was very disappointing, yeah. It was a big disappointment and more so for him because he had a lot of years invested and he was really the one initially who got them to even consider it, you know, the screenplay that he wrote. I’m not the producer on it and I’m an actor for hire, and, you know, Marvel certainly has a pretty amazing track record, rightly or wrongly, so I think it just was that kind of combination where although they like the idea of the individual and somebody with Edgar’s individual spirit and everything, maybe just collided with an operation – I think they’re all on relatively decent terms.”
The bolded part is basically where I'm at. Until such a time as an unadulterated disaster or one so mixed by fandom that you can't escape that there's some massive stink I'm going to continue to give Ant-Man the benefit of the doubt.
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Old July 9 2014, 06:40 PM   #524
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

Captain Craig wrote: View Post
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The bolded part is basically where I'm at. Until such a time as an unadulterated disaster or one so mixed by fandom that you can't escape that there's some massive stink I'm going to continue to give Ant-Man the benefit of the doubt.
Me, too. I'm not a fan of Edgar Wright, tho I have nothing against him, either, but I really don't see his leaving as that big of a deal for the movie. I realize replacing a director is a "big deal" for any movie, but I'm think this will kill it, I might enjoy it more after all. But I'd still like to see a comparison script or something in the future just to see where he would have wanted to go with it.
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Old July 18 2014, 01:04 PM   #525
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

Kevin Feige on Edgar Wright Ant-Man exit: Marvel's not a big evil studio

"We said, 'Let's do this together and put out a statement'. What do we say? 'Creative differences'. I said, 'That's what they always say and no-one ever believes it'. Edgar said, 'But in this case, it's true'."



"The Marvel movies are very collaborative, and I think they are more collaborative than what he had been used to. And I totally respect that," Feige commented.

"[But] the notion that Marvel was scared, the vision was too good, too far out for Marvel is not true. And I don't want to talk too much about that, because I think our movies speak to that.

"Go look at Iron Man 3; go look at The Winter Soldier; go see Guardians of the Galaxy later this month. It would have to be really out there to be too out there for us."
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