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Old May 24 2014, 07:49 PM   #331
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

From the Playlist:

What went wrong? Well, Latino-Review has the alleged scoop what what we’ve been hearing too: a recent script rewrite that was a dealbreaker for Wright. What did Marvel want? Well, you can probably imagine, more integration with the current Marvel Universe, issues with the “core morality” of the characters (Ant-Man likely being a thief at least at first), and the inclusion of MCU franchise characters. Wright and Cornish evidently did a rewrite to address these concerns, but Marvel pulled a dumb move: giving the script to low-level in-house Marvel writers to move the screenplay closer to the studios wishes.

Evidently that homogenized version of the script just came in, Wright hated it and almost immediately announced that he was leaving (evidently he met with them yesterday and the announcement the he was leaving was just a few hours later).
There’s also been rumors that this decision came on from Disney and Alan Horn, the owners of Marvel Studios, and that might make sense given the fact that Marvel has been onboard with Wright’s vision they helped shape for years now. Theirs was akin to a symbiotic relationship with the same goal in mind: getting an Ant-Man film to the screen. It would make sense that an outsider looking in from the outside would place demands on the screenplay that hadn’t been there before. Of course this is all speculation at first (though we've also heard Feige went to bat for Wright and lost), but more will come out we’re sure.
Marvel has more and more been acting like the TV model: the showrunners and producers are king, the writers are their lieutenants and the director is simply the person who comes in and executes the already-established vision. Only with Marvel, it’s the producers and studio that is king and the writers are basically foot soldiers. “Thor: The Dark World” was directed by a “Game Of Thrones” filmmaker accustomed to executing for his superiors and “Captain America: The Winter Soldier” were helmed by the same type of guys: two untested blockbuster filmmakers who had done a decade of TV work and wanted a shot at some major league filmmaking.
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Old May 24 2014, 09:02 PM   #332
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
Directors, even the great ones, are merely the hired guns of the studio's vision.
I'm very glad to hear that, actually. Directors have too much power over movies, and those movies usually suffer as a result. Especially when dealing with well-known franchises where they want to "shake things up" or "reimagine" everything, whereas everyone else is just hoping to see a more faithful and/or up-to-date adaptation.

I have no doubt that's what was going on here. No doubt at all.
I understand (to some extent) why it can be appealing, but you have to understand what is lost.

I saw the Winter Soldier again after having some weeks to think about it. Then, the GotG trailer showed, and the whole damn for both, I couldn't help think that this was all about a product - an assembly-line product - rather than a vision. I fear the new Star Wars film may be the made in the same fashion.

But when Lucas made the first Star Wars film, and when Spielberg did his early blockbusters or when Zemeckis and Gale started ironing out a little film called Back to the Future, nothing was certain.. their vision was delicate, anything could break it. All these guys had to constantly reel in their vision according to the realities and limitations of the time and hold onto what was important.. whatever was left, whatever we got to see, that was important.

Now, the studios have the vision, and the ego, and they are the ones laughing all the way to the bank. We are watching a corporate product now. Nothing more. A lot of bright colors devoid of anything. GotG is not a risk.. even though it might seem the riskiest of what Marvel is doing, but I guarantee you that even if it flops, the accountants there can put them all in the black with a little number crunching. And Ant-Man.. it's the same thing.. it all has to fit with Marvel's vision right to a tee, They know what a superhero film looks like. Disney knows what a Star Wars film looks like. It's all corporate.. nothing is truly risky or visionary anymore.
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Old May 24 2014, 10:37 PM   #333
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
They know what a superhero film looks like. Disney knows what a Star Wars film looks like. It's all corporate.. nothing is truly risky or visionary anymore.
"Risky" and "$200 million budgets" don't mix well.
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Old May 24 2014, 10:42 PM   #334
.:: TSN ::.
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
...
It's all corporate.. nothing is truly risky or visionary anymore.
But do these movies need to be risky and visionary? There are still surprising new movies that are not part of franchises and can be visionary.

I know that I like current Marvel franchise and I´m happy that I know what I´m getting when I go see a Marvel movie.
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Old May 24 2014, 10:54 PM   #335
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ATimson wrote: View Post
Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
They know what a superhero film looks like. Disney knows what a Star Wars film looks like. It's all corporate.. nothing is truly risky or visionary anymore.
"Risky" and "$200 million budgets" don't mix well.
Sure they do in this case.

Risky in that no one -- I mean the general public - has heard of GotG. And those that have would agree that making a movie starring a raccoon and a tree is risky. But, with a string of successful films, in particular, the Avengers, Marvel Studios can afford to spend some big cash to put these risky projects out there. Even if it "flops" they aren't in the hole for it as deeply as another studio might be. If the film under-performs, the accountants can turn water into wine and make it all look nicey-nice to investors.

It's all a damn product. I person don't think that GotG is ask risky as I made it sound above.. it's got snarkey humor and obvious gags, and, unlike actual risky science fiction films of the past, it doesn't appear to be saying a whole lot.

I remember when Star Wars was risky. I remember how magical it was because of it. I remember how amazing it was, how amazing it looked, and how amazing it felt, when Yoda managed to levitate the X-Wing out of the swamp (cue some awesome music) and the combination of Yoda's performance (he might have been a puppet, but ut was a performance), mixed with the grit of a sea-weed covered ship, and a well-realized effect, and you have cinema magic. But this scene wouldn't impress many of the younger viewers today. This kind of thing.. objects floating around - is seen all the time. CGI, the ability to bring anything to life, has dulled cinema. All the studios can do is turn out crap that is sufficient rather than amazing.
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Old May 24 2014, 11:10 PM   #336
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

I think risky is fine, if it was going to be a solo film. Granted that's what it was when Wright first signed on to make it, and in a way it sucks that he got pulled into the MCU. But he was willing to play ball.

But the MCU has turned into a franchise now. Sure the films are made to stand alone (or at least they should be) but in the end it's all part of the same franchise. I look at the MCU similar to how I look at the James Bond films, both are movie franchise that over the years have involved several different writers and directors. And just like the James Bond franchise, the MCU is a industry where the producers are much more powerful than the directors.

I would have loved to seen an Edgar Wright directed Ant-Man with no constraints. But all that changed when the MCU was formed. And I think with the MCU there should be a single guiding vision which keeps everything in check. If these films are all supposed to take place in the same universe, then I hope they look like they all take place in the same universe.

And now I'm going to say something that is probably the unpopular opinion around here: but I am not the least bit surprised to see that Wright has left the project, nor does it really bother me all that much.
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Old May 24 2014, 11:17 PM   #337
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
Now, the studios have the vision, and the ego, and they are the ones laughing all the way to the bank. We are watching a corporate product now. Nothing more. A lot of bright colors devoid of anything. GotG is not a risk.. even though it might seem the riskiest of what Marvel is doing, but I guarantee you that even if it flops, the accountants there can put them all in the black with a little number crunching. And Ant-Man.. it's the same thing.. it all has to fit with Marvel's vision right to a tee, They know what a superhero film looks like. Disney knows what a Star Wars film looks like. It's all corporate.. nothing is truly risky or visionary anymore.
Uber-corporate, assembly-line filmmaking far precedes Star Wars, I can assure you of that.

The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 1:9
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Old May 25 2014, 12:29 AM   #338
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

Captain Craig wrote: View Post
I unplug, get offline to spend time with real people, see XM: DOFP and all hell breaks loose on the next MCU film due to start shooting!!!!

I swear I can't leave this place for a second!
Yeah, no kidding. I've been away from the internet since yesterday morning and everything blows up.

I'm willing to see what'll happen, but Edgar Wright's enthusiasm for this project is a lot of what appealed to me. Getting rid of that is disappointing, to say the least.
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Old May 25 2014, 01:08 AM   #339
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

.

I was really looking forward to seeing what Wright did with this, so I am really disapointed to see him gone.
I find it kind of weird that they would apparently have such an issue with what Wright apparently wanted to do after they apprently wanted James Gunn to actually go farther with GotG. I read an interview the other day with Gunn, where he said that he originally wrote a more straight forward version, but Feige and Marvel told him to "make it more James Gunn". I have to wonder why "James Gunn" is OK, but apparently "Edgar Wright" is not.
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Old May 25 2014, 01:24 AM   #340
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
I remember when Star Wars was risky. I remember how magical it was because of it. I remember how amazing it was, how amazing it looked, and how amazing it felt, when Yoda managed to levitate the X-Wing out of the swamp (cue some awesome music) and the combination of Yoda's performance (he might have been a puppet, but ut was a performance), mixed with the grit of a sea-weed covered ship, and a well-realized effect, and you have cinema magic. But this scene wouldn't impress many of the younger viewers today. This kind of thing.. objects floating around - is seen all the time. CGI, the ability to bring anything to life, has dulled cinema. All the studios can do is turn out crap that is sufficient rather than amazing.
Star Wars: A New Hope budget (adjusted for inflation):
$41.71 million.

Average MCU Budget:
$150 - $200 million.

If you want riskier movies, stop watching big budget Hollywood films.
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Old May 25 2014, 01:27 AM   #341
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

James Gunn posted this on his Facebook page...

Sometimes you have friends in a relationship. You love each of them dearly as individuals and think they're amazing people. When they talk to you about their troubles, you do everything you can to support them, to keep them together, because if you love them both so much doesn't it make sense they should love each other? But little by little you realize, at heart, they aren't meant to be together - not because there's anything wrong with either of them, but they just don't have personalities that mesh in a comfortable way. They don't make each other happy. Although it's sad to see them split, when they do, you're surprisingly relieved, and excited to see where their lives take them next.

It's easy to try to make one party "right" and another party "wrong" when a breakup happens, but it often isn't that simple. Or perhaps it's even more simple than that - not everyone belongs in a relationship together. It doesn't mean they're not wonderful people.

And that's true of both Edgar Wright and Marvel. One of them isn't a person, but I think you get what I mean.
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Old May 25 2014, 01:36 AM   #342
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

JD wrote: View Post
I find it kind of weird that they would apparently have such an issue with what Wright apparently wanted to do after they apprently wanted James Gunn to actually go farther with GotG. I read an interview the other day with Gunn, where he said that he originally wrote a more straight forward version, but Feige and Marvel told him to "make it more James Gunn". I have to wonder why "James Gunn" is OK, but apparently "Edgar Wright" is not.
To me it sounds like the same thing, whether they want "less Wright" or "more Gunn" Marvel knows what they're looking for and are steering the filmmakers toward that. (Assuming "less Wright" is even close to correct here)

It's too bad that this project has been so long in gestation. I think if Wright had gotten it moving sooner we might not be in this boat.
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Old May 25 2014, 01:49 AM   #343
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
GotG is not a risk.. even though it might seem the riskiest of what Marvel is doing, but I guarantee you that even if it flops, the accountants there can put them all in the black with a little number crunching.
There is only so much accountants can do. The flop that was John Carter was a BIG punch in the gut for the studio. For the bottom line. Accountants, regardless of what the story is, don't just wave magic wands and make failure disappear.

They actually make success disappear. Never get points on net. Always gross.

GotG IS a risk.
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Old May 25 2014, 01:53 AM   #344
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Re: Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

I think I see what you're saying. They went into GotG expecting something in James Gunn's style, but they didn't get that, and they asked him to change it and he did. Now they went into Ant-Man with expecting one thing, but Wright gave them something else, and unlike Gunn, Wright didn't want to change what he was doing.
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Old May 25 2014, 01:58 AM   #345
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JD wrote: View Post
Now they went into Ant-Man with expecting one thing, but Wright gave them something else, and unlike Gunn, Wright didn't want to change what he was doing.
If the reports are accurate, Feige was on board with what Wright developed, but the Disney brass intervened and demanded changes.
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